Forum: Rotary Wing Aircraft

In each case it's the newest varient of each, the AH-64D "Longbow" Apache and the MI-24VM Hind.

They start flying towards each other from 20 miles apart, the objective is to destroy the other helicopter.

An alternative scenario: They both have to attack identical ground targets (vehicles, troops, a couple of static installations) which would be most successful in destroying the most ground targets?

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Are the Russians even using the Mi 24 still? I thought that they were using the Ka 52 Alligator. That was their main attack chopper in Chechnya 99.

Shev

It depends on how updated the Mi 24 is. For example, the newly upgraded Indian Air Force Mi 24s are upgraded with better avionics and weapons systems which have LCDs and thermal imaging. Yet I think the Longbow will win because of it is a more modern fighter.

Why compare a MI 24 Hind. Its better to compare a MI 28. Since it more resembles an Apache.

Shev

The Apache has a fire control radar that has an ATA mode. It'll probably be able to find the Hind before the Hind finds it. Sadly, US Army Apaches don't use Stingers or Sidewinders operationally. This forces the Apache to get dangerously close to the Hind in order to engage it. It might be able to stand of with SAL or RF Hellfire missiles, but I don't think those are capable of hitting helicopters flying at 150kts. It's a tough call.

The Mi-24 Hind is more like a flying APC on steroids. The Mi-28 Havoc is more like an Apache, but still isn't an air to air type. The Ka-50 Hokum however can carry AA-11 Archers and Igla light air to air missiles as well. That egg beater could seriously ruin ANY aircraft's day if given the chance!

A lot of flyers out there can give thanks to the fact that the Russian Federation has only built a handful or so of them.

Kaasjager. wrote:

In each case it's the newest varient of each, the AH-64D "Longbow" Apache and the MI-24VM Hind.

They start flying towards each other from 20 miles apart, the objective is to destroy the other helicopter.

An alternative scenario: They both have to attack identical ground targets (vehicles, troops, a couple of static installations) which would be most successful in destroying the most ground targets?

Fail!

Sincearly
-Apache Pilot-

It is "sincerely" Apache pilot! You didn't do any memos in WOC school?? Smile

Signed Apache pilot wannabe...

Quote:

has an ATA mode

AFAIK, that mode is non-operational also. Tracking the Hind wouldn't be a problem, it would link up with a system like JSTARS or whatnot, the problem is the tactic to get the first shot out.

Bushmaster78FS wrote:

You didn't do any memos in WOC school?? Smile

Nope... Physical Training Officer. Best Job at WOCS.

No, ATA works. It'll find aircraft within a "certain" range.

As far as attacking ground targets go, my money is on the Apache, especially if it had the MMA and RF missiles.

Lawman wrote:

Nope... Physical Training Officer. Best Job at WOCS.

You should have been the moral officer then. Yea I ended up doing the "one" memo for the T-shirts but in B co you do a memo for even going on a pass. Jeez!

discofishing wrote:

As far as attacking ground targets go, my money is on the Apache, especially if it had the MMA and RF missiles.

Seems the MMA is going to become a rare thing to see in the future, never seen it once at Hunter, but plenty in Korea, I wonder what the plans are with Blk III.

Apparently the RFI and the FCR are going to get some improvements with the Block III. I think there will be some LRU consolidation as well as the ability of the RFI to provide ranging information. Of course the FCR itself is supposed to get an increase in range. I think they should make the whole damn thing into one big AESA donut. It would make it so much lighter. No more mechanical faults with the ADU and servos. Hopefully they can digitally combine the MPNVS with I2 to make an even better picture for the pilots to fly on. I think the best thing to happen so far is the MTADS and the map displays. IZLID is pretty nice too. I heard there will also be drive train improvements in addition to blade folding kits, all composite blades, a dual mode LTU for MTADS (so you don't have to swap it out for a TESS laser). A lot of upgrades are planned.

Interesting discussion going on here in the rotary section.

I agree with ACSheva – why chose the Hind and not the Hokum or Havoc? The only thing I might add is that in an air-to-air scenario the Hind is in an entirely different class maneuverability wise. This thing is huge – with an empty weight greater than a combat-loaded Apache’s. It’s lethargic at slow speed and is afflicted with some pretty serious handling limitations throughout the flight envelope. There is no way you’re going to loop a Hind or anything of the sort and aggressive NOE flight is just as likely to result in a boom strike.

Operationally, it is more likely to be used in the same manner as a fixed winged attack aircraft. Hinds generally strike from the move rather than from a concealed hover. I had the opportunity to witness Hinds and Apaches training together. There is nothing weirder than seeing a Hind roll in like a fixed wing aircraft, set up on a descending vector, and complete the run by dropping a free fall bomb from one of its wing stations.

discofishing wrote:

Apparently the RFI and the FCR are going to get some improvements with the Block III. I think there will be some LRU consolidation as well as the ability of the RFI to provide ranging information. Of course the FCR itself is supposed to get an increase in range. I think they should make the whole damn thing into one big AESA donut. It would make it so much lighter. No more mechanical faults with the ADU and servos. Hopefully they can digitally combine the MPNVS with I2 to make an even better picture for the pilots to fly on. I think the best thing to happen so far is the MTADS and the map displays. IZLID is pretty nice too. I heard there will also be drive train improvements in addition to blade folding kits, all composite blades, a dual mode LTU for MTADS (so you don't have to swap it out for a TESS laser). A lot of upgrades are planned.

I just want a better HDU. Actually lets replace the whole damn helmet and get something that can actually display the resolution that is being delivered by the NVS. Even the legacy stuff would look good if I wasnt trying to view it on a 180 scan line Cathode Ray Tube screen being relayed through a series of mirrors on what is often times a scratched and blurry monocle. You put something on it that can actually see to the full resolution being delivered by MTADS and Ill tell you how many teeth that guy at 6K has in his mouth.

Forum: Rotary Wing Aircraft

AH-64 vs Mi-24