Forum: Air Force Life

What are the defining differences between a pilot on active duty and a pilot in the guard? I know the guard only flies so many times each month, and AD pilots have to fly a certain amount of times as well. Is an AD pilot considered better trainned or more capable because he/she does it full time?

Thanks in advance

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Nope. The guard maintains a "combat ready force" as part of the Air Force's "Total Force Concept." Any guard pilot / maintainer / security force can do the job of an active duty soldier at the same level of competence and professionalism.

This was my impression anyway,

~mix

There are two types of ANG pilots - Technicians (full time) and Traditionals (weekenders) and I beleive the technicians log as much every month as an AD pilot. Traditionals log something less but I'm not sure of the figure. Regardless of that it doesn't matter too much. If you look at the total flight hours/experience in a Guard unit versus an AD unit there is no comparison. We keep guys in the cockpit much longer than AD and we have guys who have been flying the Viper in our unit for 15 years and are still flying. And some of those guys flew F-4's for 10 years prior to that. I have 11 years maintaining the same tail # and I'm a mid-timer as experience goes.

Not putting AD down. They just have to leave the jet to get promoted. Our CC and Vice still put in their full flying schedules. As further examples. In the AD the most ranks you see are SSgt and below and Captain. In the Guard it's mostly TSgt and above and Major and above. Also the normal rank for an AD Viper Crew Chief is A1C where in the ANG it's a Tech or Master. Average age in the AD is something like 26 and in the Guard it's around 34. That's why the call us the "Wheezin Geezers". But don't let that fool you. I'd put our unit up against any AD unit anytime. No offense folks but the experience and stability go a long way.

You can't compare the two really. They are different from how they get promoted, paid, work hours and shifts,etc. When a guard unit is home they are a state organization. Unless things have changed since the early 90s.

thanks for the answers

are most guys in the guard former AD personnel, or are they mostly guys who joined the guard from the start? Also, how many fulltimers does each unit have? (i guess im looking for a percentage)

thanks again, and in advance

It really is like comparing apples and oranges. The Guard units have a huge experience base compared to the AD units, but that is a combination of, like fixer said, keeping guys in the jets longer and also of the experience that the older pilots that leave AD for the Guard bring with them. Surprisingly, a good percentage of the guys who graduate from weapons school will only do one or maybe two tours on AD and then are so burnt out with their schedules as the Weapons Officer that they end up going Guard to get a break and spend some time with their families. That gives a huge amount of knowledge and experience to the Guard units.

One area where the AD has an advantage over the Guard is in their overall proficiency. The full-time Guard guys get about the same hours, but the traditional members usually have to come in for a few weeks/months to spin up for a deployment b/c they don't get enough hours to stay current and proficient on the ridiculous number of munitions that you can strap onto a Viper.

Anyways, with the new BRAC list, it looks like the AF wants to turn the AD guys into almost all Blk 50 SEAD/DEAD (except Aviano and Hill) while the Guard picks up the Blk 30/40 missions. I guess we'll have to wait and see. At the moment, the skill levels, at least once you leave out the numerous new wingmen on AD, are pretty comparable.

There is a program on AD where if upon, a GU is within a 50 NM radius of your home, and you have at least 6 months on AD, you may apply through what was known once as CBPO, and the GU recruiter, this thing called "Palace Chase". For the Reserves, it's known as "Palace Front".

If you live beyond the 50 NM radius, you can get a waiver from the Unit Commander to join part-time. Full timers, usually must always go enlisted prior to becoming an officer, and if you were once an officer on AD but separated and wanted to come back into the guard.

Full-Time pilots, well, good luck, got a father in the Unit? Married to a celebrity, are a celebrity? These slots are reserved for such people. Unless you enlist first, hang-out for a couple of years, get a degree, and maybe they'll consider you if there is a slot open and even then, part-time. Sometimes, full-time. I've tried several times to come in, recently at an A-10 Unit, they asked me to enlist.

viperman26 wrote:

thanks for the answers

are most guys in the guard former AD personnel, or are they mostly guys who joined the guard from the start? Also, how many fulltimers does each unit have? (i guess im looking for a percentage)

thanks again, and in advance

The PS/NPS (prior service/nonPS) the mix depends on when you take the snapshot and which unit. Following the Viet Nam war there were lots of PS going in the Guard. Also when AD does a reduction in force we also see a jump. Recruiting over the past few years has been buying people by paying for 100% college tuition/expenses and GI Bill. So we are seeing an influx of NPS folks. Most NPS Traditionals don't stay to retirement and I don't think the kids they bought will either. Most will stay till their debt is paid and then bail. I really can't give a % of PS to NPS because it varies so much but we do have alot of PS folks.

Fulltimer/Traditional ratio depends on the size of the unit and taskings but for an F-16 outfit about 250-330 personnel are full time and about another 1,100 to 1,300 are Traditionals. That makes us very cost-effective for the Pentagon and the country.

At my unit(we are near Shaw AFB) the guys (pilots and AD) are waiting in line a mile to get in here. Same jets but more stability... Also as far as experience goes... when we deployed a while back, the AD maintainers were busting a$$ to keep the jets MR. They were staying up late into the night working on them and keeping the base commander up. He saw that at about 1800 we were done and ready to fly with more jets MR. BTW, he hated the Guard up until that deployment... He finally asked if we could jump in and give the AD guys a hand so that they wouldnt be up all night (keeping him awake!). So we did... He now LOVES the Guard. We have a ton more experience so it goes a long way. This doesnt mean that AD cant do their jobs efficiently but our guys have been "falcon fixers" for a lot longer. BTW, not all Guard units hold this reputation. Some are sh*t bags and make the rest of us look bad...(that was too long!). Cheers!

BTW: We have have 11 Patch wearers in our unit! Of those, 3 or 4 were Wpns School Instructors! I guess your right!

Thanks for the answers guys. I really appreciate it!

I agree there are bad units and good units in both. The AD is always on the hook for no notice deployment, a phone call away from being deployed for 6 months. Gone in less than 24 hours, the guard takes longer. Also the drawdowns which are still going on have hurt alot. Many a good person HAD to leave in the SSI/SSB, 15 year retirement and involuntary seperations. From what I understand the second time you do not make Major your AD career is over for pilots. How would a guard guy react if in the middle of his career he was basically given a pink slip and told goodbye. My shop foreman was an FTD AGE instructor with 10 years in and did not take the SSI/SSb, he was selected to involuntarily seperate, got f#@$ked over royally. Also have a neighbor that was a Major maint. officer on f-15s, same deal. Wonder how they will do it to the guard?

How does flight time differ between the reserves, AD and AG?

I want to fly as much as possible, but going through OTS pretty much tacks me into a reservist or guard slot, right?

Nope, OTS puts you on the standard AD track - UPT and 10 years of AD service after that.

Elite 1K Joined: May 26, 2005 - 08:39 PM Posts: 1496

ND ANG is looking for people (just not pilots)... of course they're losing their Vipers after '07 Sad

My old man just retired from the unit in Syracuse. He told me that even most of the part timers (about 75% of them) kept their all of their go to war currencies. This was due to the fact that for the longest time Syr ran a Tuesday-Sunday schedule and most of the part timers would do at least 1 sortie on every Saturday outside of drill weekends.

Forum: Air Force Life

USAF active duty compared to ANG pilots