Forum: F-22A Raptor

Newbie Joined: May 10, 2005 Posts: 5 Status: Offline

Hello All,

First of all, I am not questioning the F/A-22 as aircraft: I simply do not know enough about it (IMHO the vast majority of the people doesn't either), but from what I gather it must be a Quantum Leap in air warfare.

What I am considering is how much its existence will prevent or influence conflicts, given the number of airframes that will be available due to budget issues:

1) It is a land-based aircraft. From that standpoint, it shares all the constraints of its predecessors (F-15C, F-15E, F-16, ...). To be effective, the aircrafts have to be redeployed (tanker support during and after the move, other a/c for the support personnel, cargos for spare parts and weapons, ...). If there are not-so-many fighter wings equipped with a F/A-22, the choices will be limited

2) Some airframes will be lost (for non-combat related accidents, let's even say there will be "zero kills conflicts"). If there just an handful of Raptors, replacements will be not so easily available, unless aircrafts will be stripped from other units. I do not recall the numbers, but I could bet all I have there have been more losses of F-14, F/A-18, F-16, F-15 C/E due to non-combat accidents than due to AAMs and SAMs.

With that in mind, it seems to me that the powers-that-be believes the role of a F/A-22 is to act as deterrent as opposed to be a real (as in used on the battlefield) weapon system. Not necessarily a bad thing, of course.

In conflicts which are in progress, either the F/A-22 will not be deployed because the aircraft is too valuable (e.g. the Vietnam syndrome with the newer variant of the A-6, or more recently the B-1 example), or if deployed, the F/A-22 will be forced to play a relatively limited role: provide air dominance to allow the destruction of enemy airstrips and then leave all the "dirty work" to F-16s and A-10s (thanks God they're still in service)

Just my opinion of course!

Shodan

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The squadron that is getting the F/A-22 won't be active until December (they only have 2 airplanes right now). They will go on a regular deployment rotation after that (4 months every 16). We have already crashed one, what's the point? They will still deploy them. In fact, the brass is eager to see them in real world contingencies.

the F/A-22 really isn't designed for CAS like the A-10. It won't replace the A-10. Nor really the F-16. It's there to replace the f-15. What will probably happen is that the 22s will be sent in first, kinda like the 117s are now, they take out radar sights and such. Then when that major threat is minimized, the f-16s and f-15s will go in. You don't fly an A-10 without air superiority, they aren't really designed to take out other airplanes (though they do have a tight turning radius, and they carry a2a missles for defense). We are only looking at buying 176 airplanes. At 26 per squardon, thats just over 5 squadrons... not a lot.

We currently have 3 aircraft, will go operation in December. We will more than likely NOT be targetting ground sites. And we will get 28 aircraft.

Nice. I've heard that the Virginia ANG will be involved in the F/A-22 program. In what ways will they be involved?

They are coming out as a sorta tenant unit/detachment. They will be helping with maintenance a bit.

Ah, ok thanks!

I stand corrected. 3 F/A 22s, including the maintenence trainer right? I wasn't counting that one. 28 in a full squadron not 26, again, sorry.

The VA ANG unit is basically going to do what some reserve units do: Fill out positions needed and supply more pilots while sharing hardware. (You might even see airplanes with 2 different units tailmarkings on them, one of the FF from the 1FW, the other from the ANG unit) I know the first pilot from the Richmond unit who is in F/A-22 school right now. He should be out by the time the Squadron is operational. (which one from the 1fw is getting the 22? this I can never remeber...)

Don't take my word for a lot, it's just what I see happening. After talking to a few of the guys at ACC, they don't seem to think there is a huge air to air threat out there right now in the current theatre of operations. If the 1FW were to be deployed to the sandbox right now, or maybe 10 months from now, I would forsee them dropping a lot of ordinance on the ground. But then, if that unit isn't really going train for that, then why deploy them to do that? (though it has been done before, with the 174th in Iraq 1, they were a CAS test unit for the F-16 and ended up doing a lot of medium bombing and a2a point defense, intercept and no fly patrol etc...)

So I think we will have to wait and see to which and what the 1Fw is deployed again to see what/how well the F/A-22 actually does.

27th is the first unit. The aircraft will all be 27th, so I doubt we will see any with ANG flashes. The only ground ordnance we can drop are 2 1K pound GPS guided JDAMs. And yeah, we have 3 flyers and a main. trainer from Edwards.

Elite Joined: Sep 29, 2004 Posts: 922 Status: Offline

Quote:

But then, if that unit isn't really going train for that, then why deploy them to do that?

To show congress that it can...

ACC is gonna have to explain their tax dollars sooner or later, and as expensive and controversial as the F-22 is, its gonna be a big one to explain. It got the F/A designation cause they said they can drop bombs from it. So if we dig in the sand box and Raptors arent dropping bombs, your politicals are gonna wannna know why. Just a thought anyways. I agree though, ground pounding should be saved for 16s 15Es and A-10s ATM.

Hey Calhoun, out of curiosity, I know you work with the 22s, but I've never seen ya post what your job is. Can you explain it... (if your allowed?) I always think of you and TC when the 22 gets brought up...

-Aaron

I know of a guy that was in the ACC office with the last name of Calhoun (Hell, my brother dated his daughter) but last I heard he was in the FAC program and going off to Germany... lol.

When did that 3rd flyer come in? I know the plan is to take delivery of like 4 a month right? (I've heard everything from 2 a month to maybe as many as 5)

I would think that at least 1 airplane would have 2 Units on the tails, The ANG wants to advertise as well. I know the reserves currently does this, but hey, It is the Big Bad 1FW. Wink

With the new Small Diameter Bombs and new rack, can't the 22 hold like 8 now? (4 in each bay)

I'm flightline avionics/electrics. We currently have 2 flyers on loan from Tyndall, and we got our first jet from the factory (3042) two weeks ago. We are getting 3041 and 3043 tomorrow hopefully. As far as the SDB, unless they are GPS guided, we cant drop them. And they have to use the existing AVELs or AVEL adapter like the JDAM does.

Makes sense, No Lantirn or Lighting pod mounted on the exterior of the airplane (that would just defeat the purpose). I don't know about SDBs GPS capability.

So, 2 more tomorrow eh? That's cool.

He's a question for ya, you may know the answer. How would the aim-9x (heat seaking) get a lock through the bay doors? Or would it have to be open to get that lock? (I know it can slave to the radar, but how does it look through the bay? or can it even look through the door at all?)

I'll leave that one to your imagination.

Last edited by navav2002 on Jun 06, 2005 - 10:41 AM; edited 1 time in total

calhoun wrote:

We are getting 3041 and 3043 tomorrow hopefully.

Hummm..Don't know if Mother Nature is going to allow that... Wink

...I know were tryin...

It should be headin' your way soon as well...I'm not positive it's had all it's company flights...but I know I saw it fly late last week...I remember because the pilot did a max performance take-off and I got to see it (too cool!!)... Very Happy

...They just started (well the last few months) doing max perf. takeoff's around here...I have only seen it 3 or 4 times...It's SWEET to see a Raptor standing on it's tail!!!...and the poor guy in the F-16 chase plane is peddling just as hard as he can tryin' to catch up... Thumb

Newbie Joined: Jan 18, 2005 Posts: 13 Status: Offline

swanee wrote:

Makes sense, No Lantirn or Lighting pod mounted on the exterior of the airplane (that would just defeat the purpose). I don't know about SDBs GPS capability.

So, 2 more tomorrow eh? That's cool.

He's a question for ya, you may know the answer. How would the aim-9x (heat seaking) get a lock through the bay doors? Or would it have to be open to get that lock? (I know it can slave to the radar, but how does it look through the bay? or can it even look through the door at all?)

Hmm, strange, what's so sensitive about this, Calhoun? Perhaps I'll take a shot? From open sources, it has been written that the bay door will open and the Sidewinder extended into the airstream for the missile seeker to get a lock onto the enemy's IR signature. Of course, I guess the seeker would be cued by the radar as to where to look so as to minimise the time needed for the bay door to be opened. This is of course a LOBL or lock-on-before-launch scenario, but if I'm not wrong, they may be incorporating a LOAL function into the sidewinder where the missile is launched into the direction where the enemy is, which is given by the radar, ot possibly the JHMCS in future, and the lock on will take place after the missile is fired.

Forum: F-22A Raptor

F/A-22 deployment