Forum: F-16 News

This is a discussion topic for the F-16.net news article: "Thunderbirds continue to fly five-ship show while returning pilot requalifies". You can read the full forum discussion in the F-16.net forum.

F-16.net Sponsor

Does anyone have more info on this story?

The reasons given by the AF are very unsatisfactory and don't completely make sense.

Seems similar to what the Blue Angels went through last year. One of the pilots came down with a head cold (I think) and it took too long for him to get over it. Eventually, he was replaced. It's a high risk considering the close formations they fly in. They need to fly on a daily basis in order for their muscle memory to stay intact. When you go down with an illness that's valuable time lost.

Yeah. This is exactly what happened with the Blues. They had a very screwed up, albeit still successful season last year.

While Maj. Burns will be reassigned, it is not like he's being "kicked off" of the team. Since he is cleared to fly, he can reapply for the team as early as next year. Since he's been a team member, and knows how to fly the team's profiles, he shouldn't have any trouble becoming a Thunderbird once again. I feel bad for the guy. I know that's a very big letdown, but even he would agree that the show has to go on.

I wish him luck for next year, and I hope he winds up back with the team.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Last edited by VPRGUY on Jun 09, 2005 - 06:41 PM; edited 1 time in total

It does make sense, and is a sensible decision on the part of the AF. Whatever issues #5 had were enough, in his mind, to make that kind of flying unsafe, and he raised the flag that he shouldn't be out flying the demo. It would take an incredible amount of courage and humility for a pilot, especially a T-bird, so stand up and say he isn't totally capable of doing the mission, and he ought to be commended.

As for the decision to not bring him back, and not push the new #5 pilot into the show routine, is also a good call. That kind of flying takes an extreme amount of preperation and practice. Any fighter pilot will tell you BFM (and most any other stuff they do) is a perishable skill, and this is true in precision, low level aerobatics as well. For that pilot to be out of the routine for a while, he would have lost (to a degree) the reflexes and skills to do his routines, and would have needed a significant spin-up to get fully qualified too.

Since the new guy is an F-15 pilot, he is having get checked out in a new airplane (I guess get re-checked out, since he flew the F-16 previously), plus learn and get qualified for the show routine. Since it seems this is happening mid-show season (if I read it right) it only makes sense not to let him fly shows unitil he is fully spun-up. Those are just my thoughts on it, anyway.

Just by the by VPRGUY....Right wing is #3 ....#5 is the lead solo.

I saw the T-Birds at Shaw in mid April (flying six) and notices several times during the show that the right wing was either having timing issues (out of synch with the rest of the diamond) or not in as tight as the left wing and slot. For the most part it wasn't that noticeable... but for those of us who get to multiple shows a year it was glaring. In fact on the diamond roll the right wing was not only slow on the roll, he then had to correct back to the left to get back in position. I also thought it was odd that at this show the diamond took off in single ship. I've been watching T-bird's since the Phantom was in the stable, and this was the first time I had witnessed this.

Just speculation... but maybe performance had something to do with the decision.

jtsc1 wrote:

Just by the by VPRGUY....Right wing is #3 ....#5 is the lead solo.

Ok, yes? I re-read my post, and (even before an edit) didn't see anything mentioning #5 flying right wing- did I miss something?

VPRGUY wrote:

It does make sense, and is a sensible decision on the part of the AF. Whatever issues #5 had were enough, in his mind....
As for the decision to not bring him back, and not push the new #5 pilot into the show routine....

The article you were commenting on was about the T-Birds being without their right wing pilot since May 7th. 1+1 still equals 2. Its no big deal, I was just trying to be helpful.

I'm surprised to see that the T-Birds don't have a backup set of pilots, i.e. 6 others that practice just as much as the 6 that fly shows, IIRC there's more than 12 Crewchief's for the T-Birds, why not extra pilots?

jtsc1 wrote:

VPRGUY wrote:

It does make sense, and is a sensible decision on the part of the AF. Whatever issues #5 had were enough, in his mind....
As for the decision to not bring him back, and not push the new #5 pilot into the show routine....

The article you were commenting on was about the T-Birds being without their right wing pilot since May 7th. 1+1 still equals 2. Its no big deal, I was just trying to be helpful.

Oh ok, I didn't read that far back- gotcha Smile

Ender_Wiggin wrote:

I'm surprised to see that the T-Birds don't have a backup set of pilots, i.e. 6 others that practice just as much as the 6 that fly shows, IIRC there's more than 12 Crewchief's for the T-Birds, why not extra pilots?

Why spend the money to have six extra guys do all that flying, ship them everywhere the team goes, etc etc, for the off chance that one might be used now and then? If one is sick, they don't fly. That way they practice as a team the whole time, and don't have to worry about plugging a guy from the "other team" in for the show routine.

As for there being more than 12 crew chiefs; that is because they need more than 12 do to all the maintenance. Plus, from what I understand the showline has 6 crew chiefs (one for each jet) and 6 specialists of one sort or another (as fireguards/assistants). All the other crew chiefs are there for phase, support, advance recovery team, maintenance crew, things like that. To the best of my knowledge the 12 people that do the showline don't even do much maintenance during the season; they focus on their show routine, and the other guys take primary care of the jets.

Does anyone know when they anticipate being back to a 6 ship formation? I am going to see them in La Crosse, WI this weekend and was wondering what their status is. Thanks.

Active Member Joined: Apr 08, 2004 - 10:40 PM Posts: 201

damageinc75 wrote:

Does anyone know when they anticipate being back to a 6 ship formation? I am going to see them in La Crosse, WI this weekend and was wondering what their status is. Thanks.

We will be flying 5 jets in La Crosse this weekend.

Thanks Tankrat, I just got back from seeing the T-Birds yesterday and once again, you (they) did not disappoint. I assume you are part of the team in some capacity and want to thank you for another great show. I enjoyed the new intro with the background music and voice over dialogue. No matter how many times I see the T-Birds, you always put a smile on my face and raise the amount of respect I have for what you do. Keep up the good work and I hope to see you again next year!

PS-If one was to visit Las Vegas, is there a place for civilians to watch the Thunderbirds practice?

PSS-I saw a female in a red Thunderbird flight suit. Was she the recently announced new pilot Capt. Nicole Malachowski for next year?

Active Member Joined: Apr 08, 2004 - 10:40 PM Posts: 201

damageinc75 wrote:

Thanks Tankrat, I just got back from seeing the T-Birds yesterday and once again, you (they) did not disappoint. I assume you are part of the team in some capacity and want to thank you for another great show. I enjoyed the new intro with the background music and voice over dialogue. No matter how many times I see the T-Birds, you always put a smile on my face and raise the amount of respect I have for what you do. Keep up the good work and I hope to see you again next year!

PS-If one was to visit Las Vegas, is there a place for civilians to watch the Thunderbirds practice?

PSS-I saw a female in a red Thunderbird flight suit. Was she the recently announced new pilot Capt. Nicole Malachowski for next year?

You saw our #12 which is our public affairs officer, im glad you enjoyed the show, We practice over Indian Springs Aux air field.

Joined: Jul 17, 2005 - 06:02 PM Posts: 0 Status: Offline

Has Major Callaghan joined back in the shows yet? If so what was his first show? When did they have time to practice together? I met him in November 2002 at Lake City Florida and he was very personable. Thanks for any info you can give. I think it would be an interesting post to give those of us on the forum an idea of the Thunderbirds pilots schedules during the season. For example, how early before a show do they show up? How quickly after a show is over to they leave? Do they always go back to Nellis between shows or do they occaisionally fly directly to the next show? Do the Thunderbirds do all of their own flying between shows or do they occaisionally have help from other USAF pilots so they can focus on other things? I know I have a lot of questions but I hope you'll humor me!