Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

You're so full of it - what are you - 14? Because it's obvious:

1. You spell like a HS kid.

You know very little about jets

You know even less about the F/A-22. You don't have any involvement in them so where do you get your ignorant opinion from?

Your logic on FOD for any military a/c is ludicrous and if that's your attitude about it you shouldn't be teaching other people how to do "there" (it's their) jobs

I also have spent about the past 30 years in civil aviation with airlines and Part 135 aircraft and we are concerned about FOD there too

Let me know where your jets are flying so that I can stay away. I don't want to get hit by a piece of junk airplane falling out of the sky

I have also worked with folks from the C-17 program and they would be angry at your statements because they are untrue

If you are an example of our contractor workforce then DoD Acquisitions is in dire need of overhaul

Why don't you share your real name and work info so that I can pass it on the the folks at the SPO overseeing your projects? I'm sure they'd be very interested.

In one of your other posts you said you did build parts for "that crap F-22" and now you're not. Maybe you should keep your story straight.Quit playing games with the big dogs....

USAF F-15E's New Non-Bombing Mission Draws Praise

by David A. Fulghum

Shooting Images

The U.S. Air Force F-15Es here fly a mission they were never designed for, and it has drawn louder praise from the ground forces than their bomb dropping.

The job is called non-traditional ISR (intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance). That means the strike aircraft's package of sensors--designed to precisely place a weapon--is now being used to track insurgent gunmen and messengers or those who plant bombs and plan ambushes. The ultimate goal is not to attack them, but to follow them to safe houses, weapons stores and to others in their network. The aircraft crews also make pre-raid videos that are posted on a classified Internet web site for ground command to study before an operation.

"We get great reviews from the Army, but most of it is for non-traditional ISR," says Lt. Col. Dan Debree, commander of the 494th Expeditionary Fighter Sqdn. and an F-15E weapon systems officer. "We're not employing that much ordnance. Another big change is that the Army is now seeing what the Air Force can offer other than bombs."

WHILE THE F-15ES in Iraq aren't involved in deep strike interdiction, "we have embraced close air support wholeheartedly," he says. And in that mission, particularly for surveillance, the aircraft's two-person crew has paid huge dividends.

In addition, a recent sensor upgrade to the Lockheed Martin-built Sniper XR advanced targeting pod, operating daylight video and infrared cameras, has proven to be a "big, big evolutionary step," Debree says. "It lets you see better detail at a significantly longer range." It offers crews the ability to identify targets outside the weapons release envelope. "It allows us to do raid support [of ground troops looking for insurgents] better because we can find that single human being that's escaping."

"Raid support"--circling overhead while ground troops search suspected hideouts--is a new niche of CAS and one of the squadron's more exciting missions in Iraq. "I don't see our current role in urban combat as mission expansion," Debree says. He describes it as close air support without dropping a bomb.

"A lot of it is an intelligence battle and we're helping," he says. "We talk person-to-person with the ground commanders and to intelligence representatives. We are intimately familiar with what's going to happen that night. We help [the ground forces] catch the squirters--the guys going out the back door as they go in the front. We track them and have a very high success rate in cueing the raid or quick reaction forces so that those people are captured. We have two aircraft with eyes on [target] so if one loses them, the other still has contact."

USAF FIGHTERS have been supporting raids with the new Sniper XR pod. It offers a much more detailed, high-fidelity picture than earlier pod systems, according to aircrews here. It uses a mid-wave, third-generation forward looking infrared sensor, a dual-mode laser and a charge-coupled device television along with a laser spot tracker and laser marker. Image processing algorithms and improved stabilization enhance picture clarity. Aircrews say they can distinguish between different models of pickups even at high altitude.

"They've had great accolades coming back from the [special operations forces], the Rangers and the [other] guys knocking down doors," says Col. John Venable, the 379th Operations Group commander. "We've saved lives and we were able to capture some IED manufacturers that had slipped out into a river. We were able to capture them live."

Commander of the 379th Air Expeditionary Wing, Col. Gregory A. Feest, says, "We use the Sniper pod to find what [the ground forces] want, whether it be IEDs, people running or a vehicle they want to track." Moreover, he contends that the F-15Es can shift their capabilities anywhere in Iraq within 10 min.

"If traditional ISR aircraft aren't available, we use the pod and the Internet to fill the need," Debree says. "If a ground commander knows he's going to raid a certain target, but he can't get a request for imagery approved, we can take a picture of it and put it on the [military's classified Internet web site] so he can have it within 24 hr.

"Joint Stars is right next door," he continues, referring to the ground surveillance radar aircraft squadron. "We have [coordinated] with them to the point that, if they're going to be airborne, they send a representative to our flight briefings. Now when we go up, as a matter of course we contact Joint Stars. They will put a track of interest on the [classified web site on the] Net and ask us to go look at it to derive a positive combat identification. Insurgents are fleeting targets at best. So we need that connectivity for quick reaction."

The combination of a two-person crew and the advanced sensor has made the F-15E a formidable asset in the growing arena of non-kinetic or non-explosive weaponry that the U.S. Air Force can bring to a conflict. This is particularly important for Iraq, where the military wants to spare the population any further destruction.

"Almost every day we end up holding [over a target area] while either supporting a raid for a 'troops-in-contact' situation or flying over an IED," Debree says. "We have to maintain a continuous presence for serious emergencies like that. So one aircraft will be flowing to the tanker while the other is on station--what we call a yo-yo."

Typically, for the aircraft on station, the pilot concentrates on flying around the target so the backseater can keep the surveillance pod on target. The pilot also is talking to those who control the tankers trying to arrange for refueling in places the aircrew hadn't planned for.

At the same time, the weapons system operator (WSO) is instructing the wingman about where and what to look at. He's also talking to the joint tactical air controller on the ground about what's going on at the target. In addition, the WSO takes pictures of the target and drops bombs, if called for.

"It's almost to the point that I have to periodically come up for air to tell the pilot what's going on because he's so busy coordinating other things," Debree says. "The benefits of two seats are immeasurable. We used to think that sensor fusion and mechanization would put the second seat out of business, but what we've found is that you use all those tools just to do more."

JOINT CAS PROCEDURES for working with the Marines, Air Force and the British have come a long way. But to work best, the joint tactical air controller needs to be with the raiding party.

"Typically, if the air controller is not with the raiding party, he is 5-10 min. behind what is really happening because he is relaying communications," Debree says. "We are hampered a bit because we don't have VHF/FM radio. F-16s have an advantage there because [they let] you talk to more [ground force] people directly."

F-15E units are also undertaking infrastructure patrols, which often involve flying up and down pipeline routes to deter sabotage. "If they're going to blow up a pipeline, we can detect that," says Feest.

As for the future, the F-15Es are being upgraded with the 500-lb. GBU-38 GPS-guided joint direct attack munition (JDAM) capability. The smaller, more precise 250-lb. small-diameter bomb is scheduled to become part of the aircraft's arsenal beginning in Fiscal 2006.

A future mission the Air Force is considering for the F-15E is that of airborne forward air controller (FAC-A). For this role, the crew would receive additional training and would be qualified to clear another jet to employ ordnance.

Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology 05/23/05

That thing just seems awful 'shiny' to be 'tactical'.

Hmm, could have been in a hurry typing, and that lead to 'shorthand' that you interpret as "HS" typing?



Good thing a person can be attacked for putting their opinion up in here, when they post about what they know. Not everyone here is a right-hand-man for some general, or part of the 'in' crowd that has access to all the factual information from the manufacturer, contractor, etc



I've got friends that work MH-53's and C-130's, and in both cases they don't consider FOD anything like the 'fighter' world. Safety wire dropped in a bay somewhere? No problem. Missing nut from a wheel well? Oh well, get a new one. Point being, not everyone is as religious about FOD as the fighter/attack community.



That happens often, from all types of aircraft, from all manufacturers; remember, military jets where built by the lowest bidder, and accidents happen. And 10 to 1, someone could go into ANY airliner out there, and find FOD somewhere. Company policy does not mean written in stone. If it did, there would never be airliner accidents traced back to maintenance faults, would there?



Sounds like you didn't have any invlovement in that program, so how do you know the actual FOD issues with that aircraft? He also mentioned it was regarding ship #1, so FOD may have been overlooked then, and corrected since.



Because we've never had a jet come back from depot with someones wallet, drivers license, social security card, restricted area badge, and retired military ID in it. Oh wait, yea we have! Never mind the wires, metal shavings, nuts, bolts, screws, fastener retainers, coins, foam earplugs, etc that we recovered out of EVERY SINGLE JET we got back from depot. Sorry to pick on one shop, but those just stand out in my memory.



Has he mentioned he was in there bolting stuff together anywhere? I haven't read every single post, so I don't know. But, there could be the chance he's an engineer, drafter, painter, or a friggin secretary somewhere, and isn't actually hands-on but has knowledge of what his company does.


So I guess that rules out the possibility he once worked for LMTAS, and is now working elsewhere? Point of all this being, there isn't any need to attack someone over a post they put on here, slander them, and for all practical purposes call them an idiot. If this forum was restricted to gods-n-generals types, the ones who have all the insider hard facts on everything, there wouldn't be anyone to post. If someone is wrong about something, lets be mature about it when we point out our differences. Attacking someone like this only makes you look like the 14 year old.

Falconfixer860261 Anymore of those statements will cost you a 341 form.

OK, that is that and here is some new stuff:

Thanks for the feedback - I won't continue the argument as it's unproductive but be assured that I could provide opposing data for all the points you mentioned. Just keep in mind that he called me a liar as to the authenticity of the pictures that I posted. I did attempt to nicely provide facts to show that they were authentic and if you'll read all the thread you will see that the other individual started the flaming. You mentioned already that you haven't read every single post so it might be wise to do so before jumping in with an attack of your own.

That is pretty cool!!!

PS: I was once told, it is not the FOD that is a silent aircraft (be it fighter or non-fighter) killer. It is the attitude toward FOD control.

Falconfixer860261, Anymore of those statements will cost you a 341 form. I will post later a pic (scanner kaput) and I want YOU to tell me/us what it is. -hint- a seat.

I can vouch for falconfixer860261's background,we were assigned to the same aircraft for over 8 years,yes,he DOES know what he's talking about.I could write a book on what he's done in the unit as trainer,crewchief and NCO,and write a even larger book on what he's done civilian wise and USAF wise(maybe some of you crew chiefs/maintenance people are reaping the benifits of his hard work at the moment).

I could only wish I had his resume,I'd have better job!

And,no,he's not paying me to write this

Now,everyone play nice!

wow you've got some?? I haven't seen one of those since tech school!