Forum: Air Force Life

Grab, Tankrat, justanothercrewchief, TomasWharton, thanks for coming on this site and sharing a bit of that T-Birds' mistique with the rest of us mere mortals - you guys rock !!!

1. Have the Thunderbirds simplified their show in the name of safety?
   
2. Combat or Airshows, which mission is more important?
   
3. How close to the tip of the sword are you? Are you sitting in the cockpit,crewing the jet, working in the back shops or standing in the crowd?

MY Opinion:

The T-Birds are neat to watch but they're a support mission. They and thousands of others support the real mission of delivering weapons in a timely, accurate manner. The hat goes off and the toast goes up to those who are flying combat missions. They are the best pilots (yes some t birds have combat time but they're in the Rear now. Aren't They?).

If your'e a fan and love to see the Viper, enjoy the show. God Bless you.

If your an expert and see the show and say, "What the F*** are they doing?" Post your critique.

In reading this, if your reply is simply "You suck", let's rethink that and come up with a useful contribution.

If you are a T Bird on the ground or in the air, step up and say something.

--DISCLAIMER: I am not on the Team, don't have an application pending, and don't have 'best friends' on the team. This is just my opinion. I know this is a rather long post, but please read it through completely before coming back at me with "well I still think..." In the end your opinion may differ than mine, and more power to you for it.--

I think part of the problem with the whole "t-bird bashing" comes from an ingrained animosity among the regular enlisted maintenance ranks. Just about everyone who has spent time in the F-16 maintenance world has worked with, or for, someone who was on the 'team' at one point or another. At the very least, every F-16 maintainer out there has heard the other guys (and girls, I know ya'll are out there too) bashing the t-birds. I heard it start in tech school- and one of my instructors was an ex-thunderbird.

One of the biggest gripes I've heard is about how the team gets 'everything', and I've bitched about this myself. They show up, and we are TOLD they get whatever they want, when they want it, and be-damned if we need it or not. But, they are only there for a couple of days, and then they're off to somewhere else. Another gripe is how so many people on the team are cocky, arrogant, concieded, a$$holes, etc. The worst part is there are people on the team like that and they give the rest a bad name. But its the damndest thing- I work with people who are arrogant, cocky, concieded, and a$$holes every single day- and they've never been around the thunderbirds, and certainly aren't singled out day to day for the way they are. Anyone who comes on here and say's they've never worked with people like that, hasn't made it out of grade school yet.

Something nobody bothers to think about is the sacrafices people on the team make. How many AF regulars can say they were away from their home and family 200+ days out of the year? I know there are exceptions out there, and it won't be long before someone replys talking about WW-'Nam when they spend 2 years straight deployed in some swamp. Thunderbirds get some hellacious perks for their travel, and not all of them are on every trip. But, for all their fame and publicity, the ground crews are thrown on whatever transport the AF has handy going in their direction- who here has crossed the country (or one of the oceans) sitting in a C-130? I haven't but I hear its a great time sitting on cargo pallots that long.

The fact of the matter is, the thunderbirds get paid to represent the Air Force to THE GENERAL PUBLIC, period. They are not doing what they do to impress those of us in the military, or the odd competition aerobatic pilot who can critique about a loop not being perfectly round. Their pilots probably can't drop a bomb as accurate as our guys in Afghanistan, because they spend three-four years practicing precision flying, and only precision flying. Our guys in Afghanistan and Iraq can strafe and bomb and blow stuff up all day long with phenominal ability- but ask any four to do a tight formation loop or roll, and likely you'll have four F-16's for sale as scrap. They don't practice that stuff, its not their job.

The same goes for the maintainers. They are a great bunch of people, overall. They have some that excell, and they have some that maybe shouldn't be there, just like the regular squadrons, but they've been selected to represent the rest of us. The guys on the show line, that the crowds see doing the precision launches and recoveries, usually aren't involved in the day to day maintenance during the show season. They spend their days practicing their show routine, because that is what they're getting paid to do. In the end they probably can't do an engine change as quick as they used to, but they can launch and recover an F-16 with eye-watering precision and profesionalism. To you maintainers out there- who still stands at attention to marshal a jet, or lock into parade rest while waiting, like you were trained? 80% of the people I work with don't.

As for the whole Blue Angels/Thunderbirds debate- I agree with alot of the posts that the Blues put on a damn good show, and they do seem to fly tighter with varied routines. The Navy also flies by totally different rules. Think of the videos you see of navy jets going supersonic, 50 feet off the water, right next to the carrier. Any idea what would happen to an Air Force pilot doing that? These days, he'd likely get booted. Navy accepts the higher risk because parking 30 tons of airplane at 120 knots on a runway 300'X75' is kinda dangerous. There is a difference in airplanes, too. In the hornet, with a conventional 'stick', they've got bungee chords holding the stick 'centered' in place. It takes something like 25 lbs of force to move the stick, so it is LOCKED in position- that makes tight formation a little easier, since its harder to 'twitch' and move the stick. Viper drivers can't do that- if they blink too hard, the side stick will sense it and respond. Makes it a little tougher to hold super-tight formations with something that sensative.

The Thunderbirds, in my opinion, put on a damn good show. It is different than the Blues, and the better/worse argument will go on as long as there are two people discussing it. But whichever team is flying, wherever they're at, their job is to represent the military to a general public that usually never sees the military in person. Go to an airshow, and watch a 10 year old kid with dreams of flying watching the sky with absolute awe. Watch a WWII vet look up and swell with pride at the capabilities of todays military men and machines. Walk up to either one of them, look THEM in the eye, and tell them the T-birds suck because they don't drop bombs or their crews are a little to arrogant. If you can do that and not feel completely ashamed, then in my opinion you are a waste of space. There is nothing wrong with having pride in what your aircraft or your squadron is capable of. That doesn't give anyone the right to hate another squadron or aircraft becuase they are in place to do a different job.

Jeez...well for starters: 04/13/2002 Florida International Airshow Punta Gorda Florida