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Safetystick, MBDS is developing the Meteor with fitment to the JSF built into the design. Because of the smaller bay, the B model will have to carry A2A stores under the wings on an A2G sortie. This might not matter on certain missions unless stealth is essential, then it makes life difficult.

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I attended a Classified F-35 briefing given by the Lockheed dudes(Test pilots and ex Viper Pilots) and let me tell you... the F-35 avionics package is far superior to the "Ramptor". The JHMCS interface linked to the onboard sensors is absolutely an amazing piece of work as far as Battle Space SA. As far as stealth... Lets think outside the box... Lets thing IR here... We need to be focusing on long range IRSTS... The F117, B2, F/A22 and F35 all have issues with this area and more emphasis needs to be put on these passive systems.
The F-35 is almost identical to a Blk 50 as far as subsonic flight characteristics but they are seeing problems with transonic flight and performance ET or GT M1.
The biggest problem with the F35 is LM trying to keep unit cost down. If funding wasnt such an issue... the F-35 would be a bad MOFO. I wouldnt mind getting the Navy versions wings. They are significantly larger...but there are some political issues there also.
ANNOUNCEMENT: GEN JUMPER WANTS VTOL!!! NO!!! FAT AND HEAVY!!! Evil or Very Mad

Wilio, doesn't the F-35 have an IRST? Seem to recall Lockheed having some sort of optics package in a nose blister. Might just be a Designator or something though.

Snypa777 - Yeah, MBDA had to really if they wanted to keep thier order. It just amazes me that nobody thought to keep the fins within the AMRAAM envelope! Out of interest, you mention not carrying A/A stores when carrying A/G in the bay. The RN/RAF are planning on ASRAAM being the self defenmce missile, not a MRAAM as with the states. Combined with the fact that we don't have a 2000lb A/G store (either 500lb PWIV or 3000lb external carried Storm Shadow. I recall that EPWII will be phased out by then) would such a limit still be in place?

Sorry Safetystick, didnt make my last post clear. I assumed UK JSF B would be carrying Meteor in future. Which at present cant fit into the Bs bays.

The largest weapon that the F-35b will be able to carry internally is the 1,000-lb GBU-32 JDAM, 1,000-lb PW for us, 1 per bay, 2 ASRAAM per bay,according to my info`. So you can carry a mix of A2G and ASRAAM internally. What the UK MOD want will come down to cost as always!!!!!

On UK only aircraft.....interestingly the MOD stated in 2003 that there will be no provision to integrate any stores on the JSF external weapons hardpoints because of the stealth breaking implications. This will also make the total aquisition cheaper! The provision was at the time for ASRAAM and Brimstone internally with other stores, with absolutely NOTHING carried externally to exploit stealth completely. Except drop tanks which can be discarded before you enter enemy airspace and need to be stealthy This changed.... Stormshadow can be carried.Stormshadow is of course launched at stand -off ranges, welll away from threats to the aircraft where stealth wont matter as much.

We even flirted with the idea of wet pylons in the internal bays for "buddy" refuelling. I believe this was dropped, along with integration of Harpoon and Maverick, which may have been just "deferred". Maintaining a clean external config` is logical though. There is still persistant talk of us acquiring the USN "C" version in the future.......

Cheers for the calrification! I'm not sure our 1000lb PW would fit though. Its a bit chubby compared to the Mk-83 (tail's a modified Mk-84 group, such is the size difference - good old WWII era bombs Smile

)! No probs fitting a IV in though.

Regarding the externals - I was told similar at a conference a year or so ago and thought it very shortsighted (even SS carriage wasn't confirmed - glad that has changed at least!). No doubt the UK will be using JSF for its stealth, but in a low threat environment the guys on the ground might appreciate more than four Brimstones supporting them! Hopefully the Ministry will 'spiral' the capability at a later stage like we did with smart weapons on the Harrier and Jag.

boff180 wrote:

that still gives it a top AA loadout of 12 missiles.... which may be seen as sufficient combat persistance compare to current AA aircraft (F-15, F-16, Tornado F3) however in the UK's case it is still less than what a Typhoon is packing... a max AA loadout of 14 missiles (8 AMRAAM/METEOR, 6 ASRAAM/IRIS-T + a centerline tank).

Yes but the JSF has for times the EFA range (efa with all droptanks and JSF without any) consider that and you never need all missles

Yes, but we have airborne tankers. Consider that and you never need all that range Wink

(I partially kid, reducing the need for tankers doesn't really warrant giving up more firepower and better SC and agility IMHO)

And quadruple range? I know it's better than Typhoon but I didn't think it was a 400% increase! Blimey, if thats true then its pretty impressive.

Enthusiast Joined: Mar 08, 2005 Posts: 49 Status: Offline

snypa777 wrote:

..
On UK only aircraft.....interestingly the MOD stated in 2003 that there will be no provision to integrate any stores on the JSF external weapons hardpoints because of the stealth breaking implications. ...

We even flirted with the idea of wet pylons in the internal bays for "buddy" refuelling. I believe this was dropped, along with integration of Harpoon and Maverick, which may have been just "deferred". Maintaining a clean external config` is logical though. There is still persistant talk of us acquiring the USN "C" version in the future.......

Two quick comments:

1, We had heard the RAF was looking at a config w ARLs (& presumably ASRAAMS) on all stations...

2, The JSF weapons video interface does support Maverick so I assume they are thinking of putting them on pylon at some point...

Ciao,
SmithsGuy

Safetystick wrote:

Yes, but we have airborne tankers. Consider that and you never need all that range Wink

(I partially kid, reducing the need for tankers doesn't really warrant giving up more firepower and better SC and agility IMHO)

And quadruple range? I know it's better than Typhoon but I didn't think it was a 400% increase! Blimey, if thats true then its pretty impressive.

not toomuch... EFA range is very low

SMITHSGUY wrote,

"1, We had heard the RAF was looking at a config w ARLs (& presumably ASRAAMS) on all stations...

2, The JSF weapons video interface does support Maverick so I assume they are thinking of putting them on pylon at some point... "

Nothing has been decided publicly on weapons configs for UK planes.....
Weapons like AMRAAM, ASRAAM, Brimstone, Stormshadow, and other, US weapons are "Baseline" systems whose compatability of fitment to all JSF models will come with the airplane. Stormshadow is a cert` as this is a very important inventory item for us. You wouild also have to say ASRAAM as you have said and Brimstone as well as Paveway 1V. Its this preservation of stealth strategy which keeps popping up though I suppose it depends entirely on the mission.

It all depends on the RAF/RN requirement which keeps bloody changing!!!!!
When Air Chief Marshall Stirrup gets the question fired at him during commons select committee meetings, he dodges it by saying, nothing has been firmed up about our weapons requirements....yet.

SMITHSGUY, I would bet that the RAF will actually use Maverick and other systems eventually, as SAFETYSTICK said, we will probably introduce a wider variety of systems as and when we envisage needing them, with cost being the major factor.....

Just a note, JSF range is three times that of the Typhoon, without ferry or drop tanks included. That figure will be lower with the "B" model which carries 5,000lbs less fuel than the "A" model. Someone correct me if I am wrong here.

Enthusiast Joined: Jan 13, 2005 Posts: 84 Status: Offline

The internal weapons load that i have seen is tiny as. Basically two JDAMs or two JSOWs plus two air to air missiles internally. They are gonna have try and make the external stations as stealthy as possible because that weapons load is rather pathetic in my opinion. I suppose that if they try to increase the internal payload the price will skyrocket.
If my home country of NZ was to buy new combat aircraft i would rather have the F-16 becuase the stealth on the F-35 just does not seem to be worth it for a small country. If they could squeeze another two air to air missiles in there i would be happy. Could the JSF carry anti shipping missiles internally? Wont the USN want that for maratime strike?

An interesting point Nzenthusiast, the Harpoon was deferred from integration and wouldnt fit internally either. The AGM-84K SLAM ER was deferred but I would bet it will be carried by JSF eventually, externally.If it has been integrated to date I do not know. The SLAM ER can be used against moving ship targets and land targets.That makes it a much more attractive weapon than Harpoon.

Just a note on IRST...
The IRST system is called the Distributed Aperture Infrared System-DAIRS . It has 6 IR sensors dotted around the aircraft to give it a 360 dg IR picture including detection and tracking. It can detect launch positions and tracking of ground launched and airborne targets.
F-35 also carries an electro optical system with a FLIR imager, TV, laser designator and laser spot tracker. The ingenius thing about this system is that it isn`t a turret mount, its blended into the skin with a radar opaque window over it. This is all controlled by a processor which is cheaper than the gear on board the Raptor but is moch more powerful, being ten years newer.

Elite 1K Joined: Jul 22, 2005 Posts: 1012 Status: Offline

nzenthusiast wrote:

The internal weapons load that i have seen is tiny as. Basically two JDAMs or two JSOWs plus two air to air missiles internally.

How does the Typhoon's or Rafale's internal weapons load compare to it? Twisted Evil

Yep, that's the kit I was thinking about. Its a pretty neat sensor package and the 360IR picture sounds very cosmic.

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