Forum: F-35 versus XYZ

VSTOVL jets are usualy less maneuverable than the non VSTOVL jets. So how would this F-35 match up against the newest F-16s, and etc? Or is it simply to early to tell?, since the F-35 is in its starting stages of testing.

Any thoughts?

ACSheva

F-16.net Sponsor

If I am not mistaken, only the Marine's version will have VSTOVL? I believe it is the F-35B.

The C will be more rugged and have more wing area letting it take off and land in shorter distances, while the A is CTOL.

EDIT: Got them mixed up. B is the VSTOVL.

EDIT: It's late... I give up... it is something like that!

KickURanus wrote:

If I am not mistaken, only the Marine's version will have VSTOVL?

The Royal Navy version is VSTOVL also. Replaces the Sea Harrier.

With comparable size and weight and a much more efficient engine, I'm sure the F-35 (I'm sure to be renamed FA-35) will have maneuverablity comparable to the F-16. However, the proof is in the plane. I'll reserve final judgement until the production version rolls out.

i hope the f-35.....else it's a big waste of the tax payers money!lol

Some factors for maneuverability of NG fighter:

1. Empty weight:
# FA-22: 19,000 kg
# F-35A: 12,250 kg
# F-35B: 13,608 kg
# F-16E: 9,980 kg (Block 50 with F100-PW-229)
# F-16C: 8,710 kg (Block 60 with F110-GE-132)
# EF-2K : 11,000 kg
# Rafale: 9,500 kg
# Su-35: 18,400 kg

2. Internal Fuel:
# FA-22: 8,300 kg
# F-35A: 8,165 kg
# F-35B: 6,300 kg
# F-16E: 3,160 kg (Block 50 with F100-PW-229)
# F-16C: 3,160 kg (Block 60 with F110-GE-132)
# EF-2K: 5,000 kg
# Rafale: 4,600 kg
# Su-35: 10,250 kg

3. Wing Surface Area:
# FA-22: 78.03 m2
# F-35A: 42.70 m2
# F-35B: 42.70 m2
# F-16E: 27.87 m2 (Block 50 with F100-PW-229)
# F-16C: 27.87 m2 (Block 60 with F110-GE-132)
# EF-2K: 50.00 m2
# Rafale: 45.70 m2
# Su-35: 62.00 m2

4. Thrust (AB / Max. Mil.):
# F-119-PW-100: 35,000~39,000 Ib / 25,500 Ib * 2 for F/A-22
# F-135-PW-100: 40,000 Ib / 25,500 Ib * 1 for F-35A
# F-135-PW-400: 40,000 Ib / 25,500 Ib * 1 for F-35B
# F-110-GE-132: 32,000~34,000 Ib / 19,000 Ib * 1 for F-16E Block 60
# F-100-PW-229: 29,100 Ib / 17,800 Ib * 1 for F-16C Block 50
# EJ-200: 20,250~22,275 Ib / 13,500~15,525 Ib * 2 for EF-2000
# M88-2 & -3: 16,870 & 20,250 Ib / 11,245 & 13,500 Ib * 2 for Rafale
# AL-37FU: 31,970 Ib / 18,740 Ib * 2 for Su-35

5. The coparisons of air-combat weight, T/W ratio, and wing-load among these fighters at the "fair" condition (with the same kind and the amount of AAM weapons + roughly equal combat radius):
# FA-22: 7,000 kg internal fuel + AIM-120 * 6 + AIM-9X * 2
# F-35A: 5,000 kg internal fuel + AIM-120 * 6 + AIM-9X * 2
# F-35B: 5,000 kg internal fuel + AIM-120 * 6 + AIM-9X * 2
# F-16E: 3,160 kg internal fuel + AIM-120 * 6 + AIM-9X * 2
# F-16C: 3,160 kg internal fuel + AIM-120 * 6 + AIM-9X * 2
# EF-2K: 5,000 kg internal fuel + AIM-120 * 6 + ASRAAM * 2
# Rafale: 4,600 kg internal fuel + MICA EM * 6 + MICA IR * 2
# Su-35: 7,500 kg internal fuel + R-77 * 6 + R-73M2 * 2

6. Air-combat weight:
# FA-22: 27,400 kg
# F-35A: 18,650 kg
# F-35B: 20,000 kg
# F-16E: 14,500 kg
# F-16C: 13,250 kg
# EF-2K: 17,300 kg
# Rafale: 15,200 kg
# Su-35: 27,400 kg

7. T/W ratio (AB / Max. Mil.), (4) / (6):
# FA-22: 1.16 ~ 1.29 / 0.85
# F-35A: 0.97 / 0.62
# F-35B: 0.91 / 0.58
# F-16E: 1.00 ~ 1.06 / 0.60
# F-16C: 1.00 / 0.61
# EF-2K: 1.06 ~ 1.17 / 0.71 ~ 0.82
# Rafale: 1.01 or 1.18 / 0.67 or 0.79 (M88-2 or M88-3 engine * 2)
# Su-35: 1.06 / 0.62

8. Wing-load, (6) / (3) :
# FA-22: 351.15 kg/m2
# F-35A: 436.77 kg/m2
# F-35B: 468.38 kg/m2
# F-16E: 520.27 kg/m2
# F-16C: 475.42 kg/m2
# EF-2K: 346.00 kg/m2
# Rafale: 332.60 kg/m2
# Su-35: 441.94 kg/m2

Interesting to see how the F-35 doubled internal fuel (over the F-16), without being too much bigger:

F-16:
Length 49 feet, 5 inches (14.8 meters)
Height 16 feet (4.8 meters)
Wingspan 32 feet, 8 inches (9.8 meters)

F-35:
Length 45 feet (15.47 meters)
Height (5.28 meters)
Wingspan 36 feet (10.05 meters)

Also, here is a really cool link with some in-depth info on the loadouts of the F-35, which I'll also post in the weapons forum:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/planes/q0163.shtml

Depends on what config the Blk 60 is in. Like is it hauling around a targeting pod/MAUs/Conformals and whatever else they can think of putting on it? And what missiles are you going to be using? AIM-9X? If thats the case, both planes are likely to be falling out of the sky. Guns only? I think that'll be determined by whose the pilots....

My neighbor is a Lockmart employee here in dallas, he's an engineer type. He say's the F-35 is much more maneuverable than any F-16. They don't want to promote it to much to, so it wont draw away funds from the F/A-22.

Wow, the F-35 'Phantom III" can carry Brimstone and JCM if it doesn't get cancelled. Okay, maybe JSF might be able to replace A-10, maybe.

Capt-soap wrote:

My neighbor is a Lockmart employee here in dallas, he's an engineer type. He say's the F-35 is much more maneuverable than any F-16. They don't want to promote it to much to, so it wont draw away funds from the F/A-22.

Your neighbor is correct.

Is the Mach 1.6 figure for the Max Mach also grossly low balled? I was told the government requirement is Mach 1.6, but the actual top speed was greater.

You a LM engineer?

Forum: F-35 versus XYZ

F-35s maneuverability versus F-16 block 60?