Forum: Technology

There are two words that are often used around certain airframes, which I still haven't quite figured out. The words are "Pave" and "Have". Pave, as in Pave Low (MH-53), or Pave Hawk (MH-60) and Have, as in Have Blue (Stealth Demonstrator), and Have Doughnut (MiG-17 DACT program). Now, I may be wrong about this, but to my way of thinking, Pave would be some type of major modification to an existing airframe, and Have would be simply that, what you would have, due to the technology demonstrated by the airframe. For instance you "have" blue sky when Have Blue flies, or you "have" a doughnut shaped intake coming toward you when the MiG-17 meets you head on. Am I wrong about this? Your thoughts por favor.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

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TC, I may be wrong and this may be fiction that I remember from some Tom Clancy book (the neurons are a bit taxed right now). Those "Have" programs you mentioned were highly classified projects in their time and I think that most classified project names are picked at random from an approved pool of words. That way you can't guess what the nature of the project is if you happen to overhear or read it by accident (or more nefarious means Wink

). There was a Northrop stealth plane that was unveiled not too long ago and its project name was Tacit Blue. I don't know that the "Have" actually has any meaning in the name.
As for the "Pave" in "Pave Low" and "Pave Hawk," I think you're probably right. I think it means that it's not your average -60 or -53, it's meant for special ops. Just my $.02 as a civilian Very Happy

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I think PAVE was used for any AFSOC-managed modification program, but know for sure that HAVE was a term used for special projects initiated by Air Force Systems Command. AFLC used PACER...

When AFLC and AFSC merged to become AFMC, a new term was created...CORAL.

Keep in mind that the names were not always classified and sometime "Misused" as subterfuge. Wink

That seems as logical an explanation as any. I have had no part of any programs with any code names like that, and my neurons are also taxed right now, from watching THE RED SOX FINALLY BEAT THE YANKEES! HOOAH! Very Happy

Even though I'm a Phillies fan, I'm very proud of those guys! But, that's getting a little off subject. Anyway, do you happen to know the Tom Clancy book off the top of your head? Fighter Wing perhaps? Also, if anyone else knows anything about any program or aircraft with these code names, please let us know.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Also, PAVE is used for FSAT Drone modifications: Pave Deuce (F-102) Pave Hun (F-100) Pave Six (F-106) and Pave Phantom (F-4), so I'm thinking that PAVE also crosses MAJCOMs, as drones are operated by ACC, and aircraft are converted to drones by AFMC.

Quote:

THE RED SOX FINALLY BEAT THE YANKEES! HOOAH! Very Happy

HOOAH!!!

Back on topic, sorry, I don't remember where I read it. I started reading Clancy books back in sixth grade and sometimes they all run together. I'm not really sure it was even a Clancy book, to tell you the truth. I haven't read that one yet, but now that you mention it, I'll have to run down to the library when I get a chance!

PAVE is actually an acronym - I don't remember the exact wording, but it is something similar to Precision Avionic Vectoring Equipment, aka targeting pods. Programs were given PAVE prefixes and unique suffixes, such as PAVE PENNY, PAVE KNIFE, PAVE TACK, PAVE SPIKE, etc. Here is a partial list I found on the net:

* PAVE PENNY (AN/AAS-35): Laser tracker pod used on the A-10 and A-7 aircraft. Does not contain a laser.
* PAVE SPECTRE (AN/AVQ-19): Laser tracking and designator used on C-130 gunships.
* PAVE SPIKE (AN/AVQ-12): Laser tracking and designator pod fitted on F-4 and F-111 aircraft.
* PAVE TACK (AN/AVQ-26): Advanced optronics pod containing stabilized turret with FLIR, laser designator and tracker used on the F-4, RF-4, and F-111F aircraft.

The following systems are not in the active inventory but are included for information

* PAVE ARROW (AN/AVQ-14): This was a laser tracker pod developed for use in conjunction with the PAVE SPOT laser designator used on O-2A FAC spotter planes, C-123, and was planned for use on the F-100. It was eventually merged with the PAVE SWORD program.
* PAVE BLIND BAT: The PAVE BLIND BAT consisted of a laser target designator to illuminate targets for the PAVE WAY guided bombs. The PAVE BLIND BAT had an effective range of 18,000 feet and was developed for use by AC-130 gunships to aid supporting fighter aircraft.
* PAVE FIRE: Development of laser scanner to aid F-4 Phantoms in securing proper target bearing.
* PAVE GAT: Development of a laser rangefinder for use on the B-52G.
* PAVE KNIFE (AN/ALQ-10): The original laser designator pod developed by Aeronutronic-Ford and used in combat in Vietnam.
* PAVE LANCE: Developmental effort to replace the PAVE KNIFE by improving night capability with the addition of a FLIR in place of the low light television (LLTV). Superseded by PAVE TACK.
* PAVE LIGHT (AN/AVQ-9): Stabilized laser designator developed for the F-4 Phantom.
* PAVE NAIL (AN/AVQ-13): Modification of 18 OV-10 FAC aircraft with stabilized periscopic night sight and laser designator. Program coordinated with PAVE PHANTOM and PAVE SPOT.
* PAVE PHANTOM: Addition of an ARN-92 Loran and computer to the F-4D allowing aircraft to store targeting information for eight separate positions illuminated by OV-10 PAVE NAIL.
* PAVE PRONTO: Modification of AC-130 gunships for night attack including an LLTV Electro systems night observation camera, AAD-4, or AAD-6 FLIR and AVQ-17 illuminator.
* PAVE SCOPE: Target acquisition aids for jet fighter aircraft such as the Eagle Eye (LAD) AN/AVG-8, and TISEO.
* PAVE SHIELD: Classified project undertaken by Aeronautical Research Associates.
* PAVE SPOT (AN/AVQ-12): Stabilized periscopic night vision sight developed by Varo for use on the O-2A FAC. The system was fitted with a Korad laser designator (ND:YAG).
* PAVE STRIKE: A related group of air-to-ground strike programs include PAVE TACK and IR guided bombs.
* PAVE SWORD (AN/AVQ-11): Laser tracker designed to pick up energy from targets illuminated by O-2A spotter planes. Used on F-4, and bore sighted with its radar set.

Yo ho!

Habu duece has it right!!!!

The Pave Nails at NKP had a squad mascot - the PAVE Dog, heh heh .

Senior Trend is worth looking up.

TACIT Rainbow was for an ECM drone, best I recall.

HAVE BLUE is the biggie, but there are others..........

How about OXCART?

HAVE QUICK was for our freq hopping radios. Not secure, but jam-resistant to a point. Sucker hopped freqs 8 times a second or so. Spread spectrum technology came along, and then we had a really jam-resistance doofer. GPS and most cell phones use same technology nowadays.

I always liked the "SEEK" programs. One was related to the Have Quick radios - think it was called SEEK Silence.

One of the best code word doofers was related to Red Flag exercises. Also related to squad deployments to Nellis that was unrelated to Red Flag. Can't mention it until I know we're all cleared. Look about and post when you find it.

Back in 70's, CORONET was used for deployments. CONSTANT was also used.

Try to find something with PEG. Lemme know when you find it.

later,

Thanks for that list H2. I finally found a webpage which describes the code-naming process, and yes parrothead, you are correct. The names really didn't mean anything, except when some bored GIs either create a very logical acronym out of nothing, or they come up with a funny and/or obscene acronym (my favorite). For example: USAF (U Sure Are F**ked!) or AETC (Allergic Excessively To Combat). Anyway, here's the website I found:

http://www.aerofiles.com/pave.html

As far as the code name PAVE for use in FSAT drone programs, I would think that it would fall under the created acronym Precision Avionic Vectoring Equipment, as drones would be modified with the equipment to allow them to be flown unmanned. Thus, when we took an F-100 and modified it to be a QF-100, the program would fall under the code name "Pave Hun" and then "Pave Six" for the QF-106, and so on.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Quote:

Thanks for that list H2. I finally found a webpage which describes the code-naming process, and yes parrothead, you are correct. The names really didn't mean anything, except when some bored GIs either create a very logical acronym out of nothing, or they come up with a funny and/or obscene acronym (my favorite). For example: USAF (U Sure Are F**ked!) or AETC (Allergic Excessively To Combat).

TC, thanks for the confirmation and a good laugh Laughing

! I hadn't heard the one for USAF! Here are a couple of my favorites - NAVY (Never Again Volunteer Yourself), MARINES (My A$$ Rides In Navy Equipment, Sir!), and ARMY (Aren't Really Marines Yet). I think everyone here knows what FUBAR and SNAFU stand for Wink

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Thanks are also in order for Gums and Habu2 for all the good info Smile

. Gums, I can't tell you how much I wish I had the security clearance and time to sit down with you and pick your brain over a few adult beverages Mr. Green

! You never fail to make me laugh and you've got so many great stories Cool

. Thanks to you, I've picked up the habit of using the word "doofer" in normal conversation which has drawn more than a few questioning looks at computer school Very Happy

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TC wrote:

Pave Phantom (F-4)

I'd have picked "Pave Phour", but that's just me. Very Happy

Hey Gums, I found "Constant Peg". This thread has been dead for awhile, and a previous topic made me think about it again. Constant Peg was a Tonopah program designed to evaluate the MiG-23. In the thread I started about Gen. Bond, a few of us discussed the program that fell under this codename. Some say Gen. Bond died in a MiG-23 mishap, others in a 117, but from what I've read, and heard, I believe it was something "Constant Peg" related. Spooky Stuff. Shocked

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Ok, I found a little more about Constant Peg from another source. Here is a site I found that lists virtually every code name that has been declassified to this point:

http://www.designation-systems.net/usmi ... html#_Pave

This is what it says about Constant Peg:

Constant Peg - Air Combat Training with MiGs from 4477th TES, at TTR, early 1980s - 03/1988, follow-on to Have Idea

Go to that site. A lot of very interesting stuff on there.

Beers and MiGs were made to be...TESTED??...no...POUNDED!

Gums wrote:

TACIT Rainbow was for an ECM drone, best I recall.
...
How about OXCART?

TACIT RAINBOW = AGM-136 (Linky McLink). Looking at the picture, I think I recognize that from the Air Force Museum in Dayton.

OXCART = A-12. Too easy Wink

Other cool ones worth looking up are AQUATONE and SUNTAN.

Gums wrote:

How about OXCART?

Or SUNTAN, or GUSTO, or FISH, KINGFISH, CYGNUS, TAGBOARD, SENIOR BOWL, SENIOR CROWN...all related in some way to the same thing Wink

While I'm at it, I'll add all the SENIOR names....

SENIOR:

BLADE
BOOK
JUMP
LANCE
OPEN
RUBY
SABER
SCOUT
SHUFFLE
SMART
SPAN
SPEAR
STRETCH
YEAR

Wink

Forum: Technology

Aviation Terminology: PAVE/HAVE names?