Forum: General F-35 Forum

Interesting concept converting legacy jets into,expendable robot mules.
A more fitting role for these old warriors than being used for target practice.

http://www.sldinfo.com/shaping-the-wolf ... evolution/

Examining the Offensive Enterprise requires a similar exploitation construct as any Military Force, but adds the third dimension to the mix. This would have the fifth generation platforms as the scouts and observers; and the fourth generation platforms as shooters to be thrown towards enemy defenses to force their response and identification as well as be the swarm to deter any further penetration.

This aspect requires rethinking the use of fourth generation platforms and introduces the concept of using fourth generation assets as Remotely Piloted Vehicles.

They would, as they can now, receive targets from the fifth generation platforms; be able to verify and validate the received target; and engage either enemy air or enemy integrated air defenses to smooth the way for further operations.

This concept is ‘The Wolfpack’; employing two fifth generation platforms with four fourth generation remotely piloted vehicles.

(For a Defense News story on Boeing and the F-16 robotics approach see

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2012 ... n-Market).

The fifth generation platforms; as scouts would be admonished to not shoot lest they give away their position; but rather to expend all the weaponry from the fourth generation platforms; or from any available shooter that could reasonably engage the designated target. If they are required to engage owing to the fact they have been detected; then shoot and scoot is the motto. This concept would seek to preserve the quantity of fifth generation assets well into the second and third day of warfare.

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Fascinatingly uninformed.

It would seem to be simpler to just buy more standoff munitions.

Dang!, great minds think alike, mules! Wahoo!! A strike package with a quarter back -35; scout/ sniper -22 and pairs of legacy jets with AESA transmitters and loaded to the gills with ordinance. Each distant, remote "teen" can turn on their "head lights" (as needed) and the balance of the flight can travel in comfort in a passive sensing radar mode only. All MADL is only line of sight and low power for mule control. NO comm chatter, No gang of radars painting, just guiet and deadly! Heck the LOs could hang around in ISR, BDA mode while the teens are rtb for more fuel, ordinance, repairs. Love it! Very Happy

maus92 wrote:

Fascinatingly uninformed.

Yeah, what does he know? Just a former Sec. Of the AF after all. Rolling Eyes

We should be buying up used MiG's for target practice and saving good airframes for other uses.

Interesting concept. I guess you would have to work out the cost of modifying and maintaining the old fighters vs. building more modern purpose built drones.
If you have a bunch or planes that are not worth much more than their scrap value, using the as attrition weapons could be a real option.

This was raised like over a decade ago in Proceedings (or a service journal). It advocated for the Navy to carry a few near retirement QF/A-18A/Cs slung from the roofs of a Carrier hangar for extremely high risk strikes. Not a terrible idea, but its going to be costly to qualify a completely autonomous carrier-landing system.

Quote:

hb pencil
Not a terrible idea, but its going to be costly to qualify a completely autonomous carrier-landing system.

Maybe the Navy could piggyback that part of the research onto the X-47B program? Northrop-Grumman already has a system in place to taxi and park the X-47B Pegasus using a hand controller (reminds me of a a wireless X-Box controller)! Possible these could be retrofitted into a future QF/A-18 Hornet UCAV?
Shrug

It's one way to recapitalize U.S. Navy airpower anyway.

FlightDreamz wrote:

Quote:

hb pencil
Not a terrible idea, but its going to be costly to qualify a completely autonomous carrier-landing system.

Maybe the Navy could piggyback that part of the research onto the X-47B program? Northrop-Grumman already has a system in place to taxi and park the X-47B Pegasus using a hand controller (reminds me of a a wireless X-Box controller)! Possible these could be retrofitted into a future QF/A-18 Hornet UCAV?
Shrug

It's one way to recapitalize U.S. Navy airpower anyway.

I thought they already had an autonomous landing system for the F-18 -- didn't they use an F-18 to test the system they were going to use for the new drones?

Probably the JPALS thread(s) on this forum have the relevant info. However there is not yet a requirement to have any Hornet as an unmanned vehickle AFAIK. Any current Hornet operational automatic landing has had a crew in the aircraft monitoring the process so far, with pilot usually taking over for the last quarter mile so that the landing is counted for carrier landing total - rather than not counted if completely automatic. Current auto landing testing via Hornet for JPALS/X-47B use also monitored by crew. X-47B testing at PaxRiver is progressing nicely with perhaps carrier testing next year?

One of the JPALS threads as a heart starter:

EMALS & JPALS for the JSF
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... als#215793

Can you buy a drone that can play war games for less than converting an old airframe into a target? That would solve the live target needs and stress the pilots to find tougher targets than they can expect to face in real life circumstances. And you would be able to save these old airframes for use over high threat target boxes. It's not like you need them to fly 1,000 more hours and be recovered a hundred times. You could use them for pre-determined bomb truck missions, too. Keep the manned systems flying missions that fit them best.

One OT question.

Do they recycle anything from the guidance package of retired airframes converted into target drones? It might not be possible, but if you could eject the guidance package for recovery to speed up the conversion process that would be helpful. I imagine the QF-4's have some kind of electro-mechanical steering rig and that may not be recoverable.

What is the cost to fit & test whatever is installed [or equivalent] to X-47B to a clapped out Hornet for re-use in a carrier landing environment?

madrat wrote:

One OT question.

Do they recycle anything from the guidance package of retired airframes converted into target drones? It might not be possible, but if you could eject the guidance package for recovery to speed up the conversion process that would be helpful. I imagine the QF-4's have some kind of electro-mechanical steering rig and that may not be recoverable.

QF-16 links;
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/QF- ... nds-06228/ ; http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s ... ;item=1937 ;
http://www.deagel.com/news/Boeing-Compl ... 10274.aspx ;

"The USAF is running out of F-4 family airframes to convert, however, and production is set to end in FY 2013." Sad

Forum: General F-35 Forum

Wolfpack concept