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JetTest
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Posted: Aug 28, 2012 - 05:27 PM
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Senior member

Joined: Jul 04, 2007 - 01:22 AM
Posts: 427
Status: Offline
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Jay, are you and War one and the same?
Mad, you will never win, there is far too much education of the real world required here!!! |
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Posted: Jun 20, 2013 - 12:46 PM
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F-16.net Sponsor
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jayraptor
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Posted: Aug 29, 2012 - 04:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2012 - 01:56 PM
Posts: 47
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madrat wrote:
Your immaturity is showing through in every post. A video game has a goal and it is not to be realistic. Just as the competitions for the stealths had goals which had nothing to do with being the ultimate designs. The X-32 and YF-23 programs lost because they were inferior programs. You can have all the fancy gadgets stuffed into one design and that does not secure the win. It has to be manufactureable, it has to be maintainable, it has to be working, and it has to be affordable. Neither program did well in key criteria and would have failed as programs. Crying about it doesn't alter reality.
So you say gamemaker should not make better flight combat sims to replace the high replayability and fun Jane's Fighters Anthology & USAF? Don't you want a new flight sims that combine Jane's Fighters Anthology gameplay with Jane's USAF realism + Ace Combat's graphics + GTA style scenery, buildings, surroundings and public human AIs?
America having too many ignorants like you end up more companies winding up and losing to China in terms of economy. Thanks to people like you, idiots could climbed up corporate ladder while you still stuck in the bottom.
Fyi, Mc'D had more experience in building practical aircrafts than other manufacturers. The ugly cheap lousy A-4 flown more sorties than LM's crappy F-104 that only know how to crash. The LM's F-104 did score 2 kills over Taiwan but 1 F-104 crashed. Ever wonder why the USAF preferred to fly the F-4 rather than F-104 over Vietnam? Don't try to claim F-16 as Lockheed's credits as it belongs to GENERAL DYNAMICS. The F/A-18 not that agile or handsome but still, the Navy prefers to fly them more because of its ruggedness and toughness. So, you are saying YF-23 and X-32 are lousy just because they try to be practical?
If there are F-23 and F-32 today and US happen to be at war with country X that has proper air force owning 300+ Su-30MK and Su-35BM that are well maintained, you might find the US pilots prefer to fly F-23 and F-32 rather than F-22 and F-35. Main priority is because of practicality and reliability, not style and status. You have new Ferrari and new Ford Fusion but when driving in town in long term, you would stick to reliable Fusion instead of Ferrari because of practicality. |
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JetTest
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Posted: Aug 29, 2012 - 04:23 PM
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Senior member

Joined: Jul 04, 2007 - 01:22 AM
Posts: 427
Status: Offline
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| Who in this world has over 300 SU30's and SU35's, particularly that would be at war with the US? |
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pants3204
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 02:37 AM
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Active Member

Joined: Mar 15, 2012 - 04:42 AM
Posts: 116
Location: Arizona
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jayraptor wrote:
madrat wrote:
Your immaturity is showing through in every post. A video game has a goal and it is not to be realistic. Just as the competitions for the stealths had goals which had nothing to do with being the ultimate designs. The X-32 and YF-23 programs lost because they were inferior programs. You can have all the fancy gadgets stuffed into one design and that does not secure the win. It has to be manufactureable, it has to be maintainable, it has to be working, and it has to be affordable. Neither program did well in key criteria and would have failed as programs. Crying about it doesn't alter reality.
So you say gamemaker should not make better flight combat sims to replace the high replayability and fun Jane's Fighters Anthology & USAF? Don't you want a new flight sims that combine Jane's Fighters Anthology gameplay with Jane's USAF realism + Ace Combat's graphics + GTA style scenery, buildings, surroundings and public human AIs?
America having too many ignorants like you end up more companies winding up and losing to China in terms of economy. Thanks to people like you, idiots could climbed up corporate ladder while you still stuck in the bottom.
Fyi, Mc'D had more experience in building practical aircrafts than other manufacturers. The ugly cheap lousy A-4 flown more sorties than LM's crappy F-104 that only know how to crash. The LM's F-104 did score 2 kills over Taiwan but 1 F-104 crashed. Ever wonder why the USAF preferred to fly the F-4 rather than F-104 over Vietnam? Don't try to claim F-16 as Lockheed's credits as it belongs to GENERAL DYNAMICS. The F/A-18 not that agile or handsome but still, the Navy prefers to fly them more because of its ruggedness and toughness. So, you are saying YF-23 and X-32 are lousy just because they try to be practical?
If there are F-23 and F-32 today and US happen to be at war with country X that has proper air force owning 300+ Su-30MK and Su-35BM that are well maintained, you might find the US pilots prefer to fly F-23 and F-32 rather than F-22 and F-35. Main priority is because of practicality and reliability, not style and status. You have new Ferrari and new Ford Fusion but when driving in town in long term, you would stick to reliable Fusion instead of Ferrari because of practicality.
If I'm not mistaken, weren't the YF-22 and X-35 chosen BECAUSE of their relative advantage in reliability over their competitors? |
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1st503rdsgt
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 04:15 AM
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Banned
Joined: Jan 23, 2011 - 01:23 AM
Posts: 1549
Status: Offline
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JetTest wrote:
Jay, are you and War one and the same?
Mad, you will never win, there is far too much education of the real world required here!!!
Come on moderators, don't you check the IPs for sock-puppets? |
_________________ The sky is blue because God loves the Infantry.
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Prinz_Eugn
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 05:31 AM
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Forum Veteran

Joined: Aug 03, 2008 - 04:35 AM
Posts: 864
Status: Offline
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jayraptor wrote:
So you say gamemaker should not make better flight combat sims to replace the high replayability and fun Jane's Fighters Anthology & USAF? Don't you want a new flight sims that combine Jane's Fighters Anthology gameplay with Jane's USAF realism + Ace Combat's graphics + GTA style scenery, buildings, surroundings and public human AIs?
What? No one has been talking about anything like that.
Quote:
America having too many ignorants like you end up more companies winding up and losing to China in terms of economy. Thanks to people like you, idiots could climbed up corporate ladder while you still stuck in the bottom.
??????
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Fyi, Mc'D had more experience in building practical aircrafts than other manufacturers. The ugly cheap lousy A-4 flown more sorties than LM's crappy F-104 that only know how to crash. The LM's F-104 did score 2 kills over Taiwan but 1 F-104 crashed. Ever wonder why the USAF preferred to fly the F-4 rather than F-104 over Vietnam? Don't try to claim F-16 as Lockheed's credits as it belongs to GENERAL DYNAMICS. The F/A-18 not that agile or handsome but still, the Navy prefers to fly them more because of its ruggedness and toughness. So, you are saying YF-23 and X-32 are lousy just because they try to be practical?
If you're going to somehow infer the the F-32 is awesome because MD was bought by Boeing, but deny the GD legacy within LM regarding the F-35 well... okay.
Quote:
If there are F-23 and F-32 today and US happen to be at war with country X that has proper air force owning 300+ Su-30MK and Su-35BM that are well maintained, you might find the US pilots prefer to fly F-23 and F-32 rather than F-22 and F-35. Main priority is because of practicality and reliability, not style and status. You have new Ferrari and new Ford Fusion but when driving in town in long term, you would stick to reliable Fusion instead of Ferrari because of practicality.
Both competitions had metrics for reliability, so it's difficult to believe that either the X-32 or YF-23 were judged significantly more reliable, if at all, versus their competitors. |
_________________ "A visitor from Mars could easily pick out the civilized nations. They have the best implements of war."
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tacf-x
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 06:19 AM
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Senior member

Joined: Sep 17, 2011 - 03:25 AM
Posts: 431
Location: Champaign, Illinois
Status: Offline
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| Guys, please. Just stop fueling the troll and have the mods eat him up. I'm sick of this insanity. |
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Prinz_Eugn
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 06:44 AM
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Forum Veteran

Joined: Aug 03, 2008 - 04:35 AM
Posts: 864
Status: Offline
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| Hey, I need something entertaining to read during the night shift... and these guys certainly are amusing. |
_________________ "A visitor from Mars could easily pick out the civilized nations. They have the best implements of war."
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SpudmanWP
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 07:13 AM
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Elite 3K

Joined: Oct 12, 2006 - 08:18 PM
Posts: 4348
Location: California
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_________________ "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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jayraptor
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 07:50 AM
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Banned
Joined: Aug 16, 2012 - 01:56 PM
Posts: 47
Status: Offline
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SpudmanWP,
Do you even know what a TROLL is? For military aircraft forum, if you don't get to decide which aircraft to purchase, get to try out several different fighters from various manufacturers and country of origin, you are nothing much different from being a TROLL. Even if you are a fighter pilot only had experience flying 1 type of aircraft example F-16, he is qualified to be above military enthusiast but still not qualified to judge which F-22/23/32/35 aircraft is better since they don't have proven combat record yet many didn't get to fly them. F-23/32 could not even be judged since they did not have production model in active service. The rest of you enthusiasts that have not flown any "PROPER" fighter is nothing much different from TROLL neither if you wanted to call those who doubted F-22/35 are TROLLs.
To prove whether the F-22 and F-35 are feasible fighter, we could only wait for the next big scale war to happen and we'll find out from the war results and bulletin. Don't have to judge by reading specs, articles, hearsay. I'll see how much US would have to spend taxpayers money to maintain the fleet of cut throat overpriced maintenance F-22s and F-35s. Hope they'll phase out all F-15/16/18 in 1 short in massive replacement with F-22s and F-35s. Hope the enemy is not another poorly equipped military like Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran. Fighting these poor countries, the F-22/35 that outnumbered their fighters could easily bully and shoot down the inferior Mig-23/29. Even if Syria has a dozen Su-30MK, the US would send few dozens more outnumbering their Flankers. Just like in Serbia, 1 US F-15 would launch 2 AMRAAMs at a single Mig-29 minimum. |
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SpudmanWP
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 08:07 AM
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Elite 3K

Joined: Oct 12, 2006 - 08:18 PM
Posts: 4348
Location: California
Status: Offline
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Me thinks someone doth protest too much  |
_________________ "The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."
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Prinz_Eugn
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 08:49 AM
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Forum Veteran

Joined: Aug 03, 2008 - 04:35 AM
Posts: 864
Status: Offline
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jayraptor wrote:
Do you even know what a TROLL is? For military aircraft forum, if you don't get to decide which aircraft to purchase, get to try out several different fighters from various manufacturers and country of origin, you are nothing much different from being a TROLL. Even if you are a fighter pilot only had experience flying 1 type of aircraft example F-16, he is qualified to be above military enthusiast but still not qualified to judge which F-22/23/32/35 aircraft is better since they don't have proven combat record yet many didn't get to fly them. F-23/32 could not even be judged since they did not have production model in active service.
The competitions were judged my a whole host of people who actually knew what they were doing, so someone random on the internet claiming the their decisions were bad without providing a shred of evidence is probably either ignorant, crazy, or trying to upset people (trolling).
There's only so many resources to go around, and military aircraft are waaaay to expensive for every design to be brought into production- at least without giving up a lot of stuff that's a hell of a lot more important than a redundant airplane.
Quote:
To prove whether the F-22 and F-35 are feasible fighter, we could only wait for the next big scale war to happen and we'll find out from the war results and bulletin. Don't have to judge by reading specs, articles, hearsay. I'll see how much US would have to spend taxpayers money to maintain the fleet of cut throat overpriced maintenance F-22s and F-35s. Hope they'll phase out all F-15/16/18 in 1 short in massive replacement with F-22s and F-35s. Hope the enemy is not another poorly equipped military like Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran. Fighting these poor countries, the F-22/35 that outnumbered their fighters could easily bully and shoot down the inferior Mig-23/29. Even if Syria has a dozen Su-30MK, the US would send few dozens more outnumbering their Flankers. Just like in Serbia, 1 US F-15 would launch 2 AMRAAMs at a single Mig-29 minimum.
Could you actually make a point rather than ramble on? Let's see... The F-22 is somewhat more expensive than the F-15 to maintain IIRC, but in terms of capability it's more cost effective. The same will likely be true of the F-35 if it in fact will cost more to operate (which isn't a given considering the logistical wizardry planned).
The same doubts about performance and technology were expressed for the F-16 and F-15 programs before they saw combat, too, and guess what? They steamrolled the competition. Not "combat-proven," which is the phrase you were looking for, isn't an argument.
The only country even vaguely likely to have a edge in numbers over the USAF is China, and even then we still have basically an extra two smaller air forces that like to fly off of boats. |
_________________ "A visitor from Mars could easily pick out the civilized nations. They have the best implements of war."
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mk82
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 04:39 PM
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Enthusiast

Joined: Oct 15, 2009 - 07:43 PM
Posts: 51
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
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| Hey Jayraptor, I wouldn't call the A4 Skyhawk an ugly lousy plane.....its neither and many former A4 pilots will kick your **** including a certain former RAN aviator on this forum. Oh yeah, another thing....you have great logic....you stated that the YF 23 and X 35 can't be judged as they are not production models in active service (must less seen active combat) and yet we are to believe you, a military "enthusiast", that these planes are the best thing since sliced bread....no wonder alot of forum members don't take you seriously. |
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1st503rdsgt
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 09:23 PM
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Banned
Joined: Jan 23, 2011 - 01:23 AM
Posts: 1549
Status: Offline
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jayraptor wrote:
SpudmanWP,
Do you even know what a TROLL is? For military aircraft forum, if you don't get to decide which aircraft to purchase, get to try out several different fighters from various manufacturers and country of origin, you are nothing much different from being a TROLL. Even if you are a fighter pilot only had experience flying 1 type of aircraft example F-16, he is qualified to be above military enthusiast but still not qualified to judge which F-22/23/32/35 aircraft is better since they don't have proven combat record yet many didn't get to fly them. F-23/32 could not even be judged since they did not have production model in active service. The rest of you enthusiasts that have not flown any "PROPER" fighter is nothing much different from TROLL neither if you wanted to call those who doubted F-22/35 are TROLLs.
To prove whether the F-22 and F-35 are feasible fighter, we could only wait for the next big scale war to happen and we'll find out from the war results and bulletin. Don't have to judge by reading specs, articles, hearsay. I'll see how much US would have to spend taxpayers money to maintain the fleet of cut throat overpriced maintenance F-22s and F-35s. Hope they'll phase out all F-15/16/18 in 1 short in massive replacement with F-22s and F-35s. Hope the enemy is not another poorly equipped military like Libya, Syria, Iraq, Iran. Fighting these poor countries, the F-22/35 that outnumbered their fighters could easily bully and shoot down the inferior Mig-23/29. Even if Syria has a dozen Su-30MK, the US would send few dozens more outnumbering their Flankers. Just like in Serbia, 1 US F-15 would launch 2 AMRAAMs at a single Mig-29 minimum.
There are plenty smart arguments against the F-22 and F-35, and you haven't made any of them. It could be ignorance, but your rambling responses to those who would educate you with real sources gives you away. |
_________________ The sky is blue because God loves the Infantry.
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neurotech
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Posted: Aug 30, 2012 - 10:18 PM
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Elite 1K

Joined: May 09, 2012 - 10:34 PM
Posts: 1298
Status: Offline
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mk82 wrote:
Hey Jayraptor, I wouldn't call the A4 Skyhawk an ugly lousy plane.....its neither and many former A4 pilots will kick your **** including a certain former RAN aviator on this forum. Oh yeah, another thing....you have great logic....you stated that the YF 23 and X 35 can't be judged as they are not production models in active service (must less seen active combat) and yet we are to believe you, a military "enthusiast", that these planes are the best thing since sliced bread....no wonder alot of forum members don't take you seriously.
The A-4 is a great jet when maintained properly. TOPGUN school flew the A-4 and ATSI contractors still do. The RNZAF threw away a great opportunity to maintain a capable combat air force. |
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