Forum: General F-35 Forum

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U.S. OKs Israeli systems deal for F-35s by Staff Writers (UPI) Jul 30, 2012

http://www.spacemart.com/reports/US_OKs ... s_999.html

"A reported agreement by the Pentagon and Lockheed Martin to install Israeli-made electronic warfare systems in 19 F-35I Joint Strike Fighters ordered by the Jewish state gives a major boost for the $2.75 billion deal that has been worrying the Israelis.

Sources familiar with the negotiations say the program, worth some $450 million to Israeli defense contractors, is expected to expedite finalization of the contract signed in October 2010 for the initial batch of JSFs, enough for one squadron.

That's important for Israel because it badly wants the fifth-generation fighter, considered the most advanced combat jet in the world, to form the spearhead of its strategic air power.

Initially, the Israeli air force's primary concern was conducting long-range strikes against Iran's nuclear infrastructure. But with the Arab world convulsed by revolutions and political turmoil over the last 18 months, it's taking a wider view of strategic threats.

The Israelis have been pressing the Pentagon and Lockheed to allow them to install their own electronic equipment, including electronic countermeasures, command systems, radios and datalinks, to integrate Israel-made weapons systems into the F-35s they buy....

...With Israel having to cut back its defense budget to boost social spending, the funding problem becomes more acute, which is why the anticipated $450 million program using Israeli systems is so important to Israel's Defense Ministry."

More at the jump. I guess the Israelis will consider it good when their own gear is in the F-35. Very Happy

But same or similar gear will be in other F-35s I guess. All will be revealed one day.

DoD Mounts Push To Placate Israel Twin Trips by Panetta, Kendall Yield Mixed Results
Aug. 4, 2012 By BARBARA OPALL-ROME

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2012 ... 01/DEFSECT

"...“Our goal is to ensure that Israel has the funding it needs each year to protect its citizens,” Panetta said.

He noted that Israel is the only country in the Mideast participating in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program and that the Pentagon has been working with Israel and prime contractor Lockheed Martin “on a package of enhancements to ensure Israeli superiority for years to come.”

Panetta also highlighted Obama’s July 27 signing into law of the U.S.-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act, which calls for an unprecedented strengthening of military, intelligence and technology cooperation.

U.S. and Israeli sources said Kendall’s visit here last week, his second official trip in 18 years, was designed in large part to advance the laundry list of security enhancements prescribed by the new law.

Specifically, Kendall’s meetings with Udi Shani, MoD director-general, and other officials here focused on finalizing a production contract with Lockheed to provide for unique electronic warfare, C4I and munitions planned for Israel’s future F-35 force.

The so-called System Design and Demonstration (SDD) agreement with Israel — a precursor to the production contract the Pentagon will sign with Lockheed — covers all costs associated with modifying the baseline aircraft to accommodate customized changes.

At the same time, Kendall sought to reassure officials here that realignment in the multinational Joint Strike Fighter program would have minimal effect on cost and delivery schedules planned for Israel’s first F-35 squadron. On the contrary, sources here say the Pentagon is working with Israel to streamline the acquisition process to potentially allow for 20 F-35s instead of the 19 aircraft covered under an existing $2.75 billion contract.

A U.S. source noted that such streamlining measures, as well as costs calculated in the SDD agreement, presume that Israel will exercise options codified in an October 2010 contract for up to 75 more fighters...."

NON F-35 info at the URL.

Israel, U.S. Agree To $450 Million In F-35 EW Work By Eshel David, David Fulghum 06 Aug 2012
Source: Aviation Week & Space Technology

http://www.aviationnow.com/Article.aspx ... ml&p=1

"...The latest accord will allow Israel to install its own radio and data link systems, as well as other equipment, on the F-35I models it is buying. Originally, stealth data links were an integral part of the F-35 mission system, restricting data communications within F-35 formations, or between F-35 and specialized communication-gateway platforms. The Multifunction Advanced Data Link (MADL), developed by Harris specifically for the F-35, provides a low-observable link that enables communications within F-35 formations and with MADL-equipped command-and-control elements. MADL uses six antennas providing spherical coverage around the aircraft. It use a Ku narrowband waveform employed in a “daisy chain” scheme—the first aircraft sends the directional signal to a second aircraft, then to a third aircraft, and so on.

The waveform offers lower probability of detection, and thus intercept, by enemy signals intelligence (sigint) and EW systems. Originally, it was exclusive to the F-35, but in coming years it will be integrated into other stealth platforms operated by the U.S. military, including the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor and Northrop Grumman B-2 bomber fleet. Since MADL is part of the F-35 communications/navigation/identification (CNI) mission system, Israel is expected to receive MADL, which will offer the IAF a data link commonality with foreign air forces for the first time. However, relying strictly on MADL means the F-35 will not be interoperable with the rest of the IAF combat fleet, so another solution has to be found.

In the past, the stealth community insisted on mission independence to secure maximum flexibility and ensure that their platforms' unique stealth characteristics are not compromised. The need to better coordinate stealth and nonstealth operations and to task the F-35 in future close-support missions, particularly for the U.S. Marine Corps, required the introduction of conventional systems such as Link-16.

In recent months the F-35 has tested the Link-16 and will soon test the Variable Message Format (VMF) protocol, widely used for close-air-support missions carried out by Western coalition forces abroad. This enhancement has also opened the opportunity for the Israelis to equip a stealth fighter with their own data link communication system. The current F-35 Link-16 application is believed to be reserved for nonstealth missions only, thus retaining the fighter's low-observable capabilities when operating in full stealth mode....

...Still, the Israeli EW deal was hard-fought, for a reason. Enabling JSF customers to include theater-specific threat libraries or a repertoire of jamming/countermeasure techniques, or issue frequent updates to these systems, requires a special approach compared with legacy, conventional EW systems. In the past, specific upgrades were issued to EW systems, which were kept separate from other avionics, thus enabling such changes.

In the F-35, all core avionics are integrated and fused; therefore, accessing part of the system requires integration with all associated systems. Having different air forces using different versions of core avionics would render such integration more complex and costly.

The avionic architecture of the F-35 solved this by introducing two separate integration levels. Customers can access the high level, introducing country-specific services, libraries or updates on their own, outside the aircraft software-upgrade cycles. The lower level is proprietary to the U.S. Joint Program Office and accessible only by Lockheed Martin. This level manages flight and mission-critical services, including flight controls, CNI and display, sensor management and self-protection. It also relates to the sensitive low-observable envelope of the F-35, an issue passionately guarded by the U.S.

Replacing core avionics with new systems at such a profound level of integration is unlikely, as it would require extensive testing by all F-35 operators with no obvious gain for the developer. The IAF is moving toward a different approach—the implementation of so-called integrated modular avionics (IMA). The concept has been in development under an Israeli Defense Research and Development Directorate program for several years and is currently being implemented under several pilot programs....

...While the IAF developed the IMA as a cost-effective method to upgrade existing platforms, it could offer a way to introduce new capabilities to the F-35 as well, without interfering with its complex core avionics. Including only the GPP IMA as part of the common hardware could offer significant advantages to users, enabling third-party application developers to innovate and introduce new capabilities to the aircraft in an “app”-like approach...."

LONG complicated article these excerpts above don't do it justice - best to read it all at the URL.

Informative article, Spaz.
The hardware and software modularity of the Israeli approach seems a smart way to extend the benefits of new technology across various platforms.

Earlier in the same AW article quoted above:

"The F-35's stealth features have been a key reason for buying the JSF, but not the only argument for joining the world's largest-ever defense acquisition. Low radar cross section is a niche capability, and new sensor technology advances can make it less important. China, India and Russia are already finding weaknesses in stealth as they develop it for their own advanced strike aircraft.

“We think the stealth protection will be good for 5-10 years, but the aircraft will be in service for 30-40 years, so we need EW capabilities [on the F-35] that can be rapidly improved,” a senior Israeli air force (IAF) official tells Aviation Week. “The basic F-35 design is OK. We can make do with adding integrated software.”"

maus92 wrote:

Earlier in the same AW article quoted above:

....Low radar cross section is a niche capability, and new sensor technology advances can make it less important... Maybe, the "Off-niche" concerns can be addressed with the "AGM-88 HARM" like response. Cool

[b]“... but the aircraft will be in service for 30-40 years, so we need EW capabilities [on the F-35] that can be rapidly improved,” a senior Israeli air force (IAF) official....”"

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nationa ... 23qjl.html

Now that we see the issues the RAAF is having with the ALQ-99 ownership, perhaps we can relate to the Israeli's adamant requirement for adding their EW to the F-35.
Being a not particlular fan of Israel (USS Liberty, June 8, 1967) they do have the national right to defend their borders and maybe even pre-emptive strikes (Deir ez-Zor region of Syria). EW would be necessary to protect their strike package.

neptune wrote:

maus92 wrote:

Earlier in the same AW article quoted above:

....Low radar cross section is a niche capability, and new sensor technology advances can make it less important... Maybe, the "Off-niche" concerns can be addressed with the "AGM-88 HARM" like response. Cool

[b]“... but the aircraft will be in service for 30-40 years, so we need EW capabilities [on the F-35] that can be rapidly improved,” a senior Israeli air force (IAF) official....”"

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nationa ... 23qjl.html

Now that we see the issues the RAAF is having with the ALQ-99 ownership, perhaps we can relate to the Israeli's adamant requirement for adding their EW to the F-35.
Being a not particlular fan of Israel (USS Liberty, June 8, 1967) they do have the national right to defend their borders and maybe even pre-emptive strikes (Deir ez-Zor region of Syria). EW would be necessary to protect their strike package.

While not a fan of the USS Liberty incident, I'd point out that we get along pretty well with Japan and Germany now, not to mention former Warsaw Pact countries.

Wasn't the Liberty incident an accident?

count_to_10 wrote:

Wasn't the Liberty incident an accident?

No!

neptune wrote:

No!

How you can be so sure?
The Israeli government at the time apologized and explained that the source of the incident is a mistake.
The Americans have announced they have no ships in the area, so the Liberty was considered an Egyptian ship fires on Israeli targets.
Just before the attack the pilots saw that it was not a destroyer but a spy ship, so they speculated that Egyptian intelligence spy after them and it was clear to attack.
Only after the incident became clear that this was an American ship
President Johnson accepted Israel's claim

In 2005 the NSA published on their web site that one of their plane recorded the communications between the Israeli fighter pilots and HQ, shows clearly that it was a mistake as a result of the insistence of the Americans not to identify themselves.

A report on the Israeli TV
http://www.mako.co.il/news-military/sec ... 331017.htm

neptune wrote:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nationa ... 23qjl.html

Now that we see the issues the RAAF is having with the ALQ-99 ownership, perhaps we can relate to the Israeli's adamant requirement for adding their EW to the F-35.
Being a not particlular fan of Israel (USS Liberty, June 8, 1967) they do have the national right to defend their borders and maybe even pre-emptive strikes (Deir ez-Zor region of Syria). EW would be necessary to protect their strike package.

We don't have any issues with ALQ-99 ownership, precisely because we don't own any as yet.

It will more likely than not be approved in coming months and we'll have them soon enough, but we already have the approval in place to acquire them and there has not been any unusual caveats placed on our use of such a capability, beyond the normal end-user requirements that come with operating US sourced kit.

As for the "survivability issues" that's an interesting claim coming from a would-be contractor who himself proposed in the not too distant past, that RAAF should be operating the very same EW kit that is proposed here. The difference of course being the current proposal operates with rather significantly greater capability than he himself envisaged, as a point of fact.

One wouldn't have seen AMRAAM, AESA radar, JHMCS, ATFLIR targeting pods, IDECMS, "managed" LO treatments, decoupled cockpits, AARGM or JSOW capability with HIS proposal...

In fact the very "balanced survivability" that some seem to think so important in future years...

[quote="Conan"]

neptune wrote:

..We don't have any issues with ALQ-99 ownership, precisely because we don't own any as yet. .....

ALQ-99 is one of the most updated systems in avionics history. Its history spans Vietnam to today, not many other avionics systems can claim that honor. (Can anyone offer another avionics system that has that time span?) Those updates are the hook that prevents the US from releasing (for ownership) the EW system to the RAAF. The RAAF is agreeable to fly the "loaners" when they are provided. If the system is not at its latest update, it is vulnerable to the latest technology and techniques that the opponents can field. The sheer complexity of the “management of change” is staggering within the USN fleet, today. Releasing the system to allies would require an immense intimacy that would definitely be complicated by ongoing international politics. Defining the update, fielding the update, flying and maintaining the update is alone, an immense task. With all these manipulations, it is easy to understand why the system can frequently "not pass" some latest test that will "down it" as not current, or available for service. EW on the F-35 will "benfit??" from the same scenario. Shocked

Lockheed awarded $207 million contract to incorporate Israeli-specific F-35 systems 29 Aug 2012 by Dave Majumdar

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... ms-375899/

"...The contract is being executed as part of the Pentagon's Foreign Military Sales programme. The Israeli-specific developmental work is expected to be completed by May 2016.

Israel's aircraft would be delivered as part of the F-35 programme's low-rate initial production lot eight in 2016."
________________

Also see the contract for this work and related stuff in the 'other thread' here: ('maus92' & 'fang' entries)

Who receives the first F 35 export
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-20298.html

spazsinbad wrote:

[... The Israeli-specific developmental work is expected to be completed by May 2016.

Israel's aircraft would be delivered as part of the F-35 programme's low-rate initial production lot eight in 2016."...

They had to add an "Is" radio because the F-35 has "only" one emergency radio. All comm. is handled by the onboard software systems.

Integrating the "Is" stuff is not so difficult, testing it can be a different matter. The "Is" will have to open up and share the intended requirements for their systems to have them fully tested, should be interesting.

On the EW side, the "Is" will gain more intel than they provide, sadly it will not be a mutually beneficial effort.

Their is no contract with LM for LRIP8....yet... and no traceable reference to that delivery date for the "Is".

Forum: General F-35 Forum

Exclusive - U.S., Lockheed reach deal on Israeli F-35s