Forum: General F-35 Forum

Yeesh!! Talk about Spartan! There ain't nothin' in this thing! Smile

(photo by www.airliners.net contributor Yunjin Lee)

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Wonder how much the Helmet Mounted Display (when they get the bugs worked out of it) contributes to this "spartan" cockpit. I know the H.U.D. is replaced by the helmet.
By the way, this photo has the makings of a good "sim-pit" for Falcon 4.0, Falcon: Allied Force, Lock On: Modern Air Combat, etc.

All the shiny buttons are on the touch screen, that makes it interesting and not at the same time. Then again it doesn't get you so darn confused like the F-16 cockpit in Falcon 4 when you first see it. Wink

Quote:

svenphantom
Then again it doesn't get you so darn confused like the F-16 cockpit in Falcon 4 when you first see it.

LOL!

Well at least there's that to look forward to. Better, easier flight sim's for the home PC's (pity PC gaming is being strangled by the consoles)! Doh

Uggh...what ever happened to flying as opposed to working a glorified iPad? I, for one, do not like newfangled single-screen cockpits. Even the SHornet is more sensible than this.

southernphantom wrote:

Uggh...what ever happened to flying as opposed to working a glorified iPad? I, for one, do not like newfangled single-screen cockpits. Even the SHornet is more sensible than this.

You don't think an "iPad" is an improvement over the swarm of gauges in, say, the F-4?

count_to_10 wrote:

southernphantom wrote:

Uggh...what ever happened to flying as opposed to working a glorified iPad? I, for one, do not like newfangled single-screen cockpits. Even the SHornet is more sensible than this.

You don't think an "iPad" is an improvement over the swarm of gauges in, say, the F-4?

Being rather familiar with the F-4, its cockpit is basically insane. To keep up the iPad analogy, I hate the damn things and prefer a regular computer, any day of the week.

No, I don't think the figurative "iPad" is an improvement over a traditional cockpit. I am concerned that it will generate screen fixation and the possibility of confusion in high-stress situations. Touchscreens in general are unreliable pieces of garbage that are mostly technological gimmicks and have few if any actual advantages over hard-keys.

If a high school student is saying these kinds of things, imagine the potential difficulty for conversion for a pilot experienced in fixed-configuration cockpits.

southernphantom wrote:

count_to_10 wrote:

southernphantom wrote:

Uggh...what ever happened to flying as opposed to working a glorified iPad? I, for one, do not like newfangled single-screen cockpits. Even the SHornet is more sensible than this.

You don't think an "iPad" is an improvement over the swarm of gauges in, say, the F-4?

Being rather familiar with the F-4, its cockpit is basically insane. To keep up the iPad analogy, I hate the damn things and prefer a regular computer, any day of the week.

No, I don't think the figurative "iPad" is an improvement over a traditional cockpit. I am concerned that it will generate screen fixation and the possibility of confusion in high-stress situations. Touchscreens in general are unreliable pieces of garbage that are mostly technological gimmicks and have few if any actual advantages over hard-keys.

If a high school student is saying these kinds of things, imagine the potential difficulty for conversion for a pilot experienced in fixed-configuration cockpits.

Here is where I'm going ageist: I find older pilots fixating on display technology and soft keys. Younger ones just get it. [Donning the Nomex.]

I'm rooting for the 'soft heads' and 'thumbers' (one famous forum member not included). Without seeing the tech in action one has to imagine. I think a lot of people lack imagination. I have not seen any derogatory remarks by pilots using this F-35 cockpit except they acknowledge the older chaps have more adjustment to make but they would not do without it. Difficult to summarise without ever having seen it in action except in movies but several threads here describe how it all works. Here is an oldie article excerpt:

Will Projection Displays Give F-35 an Edge? by James W. Ramsey, June 1, 2004

http://www.aviationtoday.com/av/militar ... e_922.html
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“...To display this information, Lockheed Martin devised a concept called "portals" that allows the pilot to quickly adapt the format windows of the JSF's 8-by-20-inch display to make them smaller or larger. Pilots will be able to view sensor-supplied tactical and targeting information and threats, onboard weapons status, aircraft flight & status data, & caution & warning system alerts. While a common configuration would use four portals, each one can be expand-ed to take up a full 8-by-10-inch display, and then secondary window positions can be expanded or contracted—using touch, voice, or hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) commands.

"The pilot, by touching a cyan [greenish-blue] triangle, can expand the portal vertically or horizontally and get to full 8-by-10 [display size] with one button push," explains Lockheed's Frey. The same can be done by voice. "The pilot can say ‘expand one’—that's the one on the left-most portal—and then, if you want to resume the same configuration, say ‘restore one,’" he adds. Using HOTAS, the cursor controller on the throttle is employed to "click on" the active touch icons to configure the portal. Voice and touch are designated as the primary modes of pilot input, and the cursor is the backup mode in case touch-screen and voice activation fail.

However, too much automation is not always a good thing, Frey warns. "Typically, we have found pilots really don't appreciate the display system's automatically changing formats on them. The pilot doesn't like to be surprised." He says the system does allow for major mode changes—like switching from a tactical mode to an instrument mode—with port-als reconfiguring with both formats and size according to the pilot's last preference, "but other than that, we haven't found a need for additional automation, nor that it is advantageous."

While the F-35 features an 8-by-20-inch viewing area, the display system currently is limited by processing capacity to the two adjacent 8-by-10s. "We had looked at using a 9-by-16-inch HDTV [high-definition TV] format, but based on redundancy needs in the cockpit, we felt better off with two 8-by-10s built together as a single 8-by-20—you get more display surface for the same redundancy that we needed," Frey points out. The displays incorporate a zoom-in capability to make features larger.

The redundancy allows one computer to substitute for the other if it should fail. "When using voice recognition, for instance, the master display computer takes the digital voice stream coming in and does all the appropriate commands, and then the slave computer knows that, if the master goes down, it picks up those extra functionalities," Frey says.

Each 8-by-10-inch section of the 8-by-20-inch display has its own graphics processor and projection engine that create the symbology. The airplane's different sensors ship the video to the display system, which inserts it in the cor-rect portal, Frey explains....”

Plenty more articles/opinions on the Helmet-mounted displays for one example - be careful out there:

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-16223.html

'Are you MF ready for the new sh*t?' (semi-famous but somewhat rude song title)....

CMC Launches Cockpit 4000 NexGen Core Avionics for Military Trainer, ISR and Light Attack Aircraft Farnborough 09 July 2012

http://www.defpro.com/news/details/37243/

"...The Cockpit 4000 NexGen core avionics include CMC’s new 20” x 7” Large Area Display with touchscreen technology as well as a new all-digital raster capable Head-Up Display. Both are supported by a modular, integrated avionics computer built on an open architecture design which allows for growth. These powerful core avionics ensure improved information management and support for netcentric warfare operations.

Greg Yeldon, President of Esterline CMC Electronics, stated: “Our new-generation Cockpit 4000 NexGen leverages many of the benefits of CMC’s proven Cockpit 4000 which is flying on several major trainer and light attack platforms. Student pilots currently trained with a CMC equipped cockpit such as the T-6B and T-6C, KT-1C and KT-1T, Hawk Mk51 and MK66, will experience a seamless transition to an advanced, lead-in fighter trainer with our new Cockpit 4000 NexGen core avionics. In addition, student pilots trained with our Cockpit 4000 NexGen will be able to transition efficiently to fifth-generation fighters such as the JSF F-35.”...

...The Cockpit 4000 NexGen supports a large format Digital Moving Map and provides Synthetic Vision System capability. It integrates with an optional Helmet Mounted Display. For training applications, display symbology can be easily configured to represent various front-line fighters such as the JSF and F-22. The avionics suite includes live and simulated weapons delivery capabilities and will comply with the requirements of flying within U.S. National Air Space."

Complete explanation at the JUMP!

Here's a good 'touchy/feely' video displaying the F-35 screens in a travelling simulator:

Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II stealth fighter cockpit demonstrator hands-on (video)
By Zach Honig posted Jul 11th 2012

http://www.engadget.com/2012/07/11/lock ... -hands-on/

"...We flew a simulated mission within a grounded duplicate of the flyable F-35 cockpit, and the capabilities and improvements are quite clear -- you definitely don't want to encounter an F-35 from a previous-generation aircraft. The dual 8 x 10-inch touch-enabled displays combine to give you 8 x 20 inches of real estate, with dedicated modules for the weapons systems, targeting, and navigation easily accessible -- you can also move them to different panels depending on your current objective. A pair of joysticks at the left and right side provide direct access, letting you move a cursor to track enemy crafts or ground-based targets as well, and a very slick heads-up-display mounted in the helmet provides infrared mapping and instrument readouts. Overall, it seems to be an incredibly powerful system...."

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com ... c05935.jpg

The company that produces the F 35 throttle and stick wre exhibiting them at Farnborough.

The throttle is quite literally, mental! There are at least 20 buttons/HAT switches on the thing! Makes the F16throttle look simple by comparison.

Go here for a 'checkers' on the 'frottle&stick':

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... t-180.html
&
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... t-195.html

Good position of same 'fings' photo: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _panel.JPG
&
http://essexindustries.com/aero-defense ... iew?nid=59
&
http://essexindustries.com/aero-defense ... iew?nid=60
__________

F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Throttle Grip P/N 9021490400-1:
http://essexindustries.com/aero-defense ... iew?nid=59
“The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Throttle Grip is machined from a high-strength aluminum alloy casting. It contains a transducer, optical encoder and several single and multi-function switches. In addition to engine power control, these features allow for display cursor control, menu scroll/select, speed brakes, counter-measures, communications and weapons system funct-ions. Along with the stick grip, Essex conducted a comprehensive qualification program for the F-35, including full environmentals, vibration, shock and EMI testing.”
&
F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Sidestick Grip P/N 9021490300-7:
http://essexindustries.com/aero-defense ... iew?nid=60
“The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Sidestick Grip, along with the throttle grip, is the main pilot/aircraft interface for flight, avionics and armament systems. Manufactured from precision cast aluminum, this grip is resistant to environmental and structural conditions per MILSTD-810. In addition to an adjustable palm rest, the stick grip contains a variety of single and multi-function switch assemblies for pitch/roll trim, display management, aerial refueling, nosewheel steering, autopilot override, weapon select, air-to-ground weapon release, gun and air-to-air weapon release.”

southernphantom wrote:

count_to_10 wrote:

southernphantom wrote:

Uggh...what ever happened to flying as opposed to working a glorified iPad? I, for one, do not like newfangled single-screen cockpits. Even the SHornet is more sensible than this.

You don't think an "iPad" is an improvement over the swarm of gauges in, say, the F-4?

Being rather familiar with the F-4, its cockpit is basically insane. To keep up the iPad analogy, I hate the damn things and prefer a regular computer, any day of the week.

No, I don't think the figurative "iPad" is an improvement over a traditional cockpit. I am concerned that it will generate screen fixation and the possibility of confusion in high-stress situations. Touchscreens in general are unreliable pieces of garbage that are mostly technological gimmicks and have few if any actual advantages over hard-keys.

If a high school student is saying these kinds of things, imagine the potential difficulty for conversion for a pilot experienced in fixed-configuration cockpits.

There are a some things to keep in mind here SouthernPhantom.
1: The F-35 was designed to be piloted by people that are in elementry and middle school right now, so the "IPad" like touch screen fits that idea.
2: The "IPad" is really just a progression on the MFD's already in current aircraft.
3: If you don't like the "IPad" touch screen every function is accessable through HOTAS and/or Voice.
4: Being a MFD improvement Pilots shouldn't be staring at them any more than they do MFD's, if anything I would think less, as they are bigger and are more quickly navigated.
5: As for not a lot fo buttons, switches and dials, everything had to "earn" its way into the cockpit. My understanding is that LM sat down with Pilots from each service and figured out what was needed in the cockpit.

(I picked this up from talking to the guy running the F-35 simulator I had the opportunity to "fly")

Sufa Viper

How to Fly the U.S.’ Trillion-Dollar Stealth Fighter Jet By Spencer Ackerman July 12, 2012

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07 ... er+Room%29

"The first rule of flying the world’s most advanced fighter jet: Do not push the red button until you absolutely mean to....

...Never having flown before, I have no idea if the cockpit is actually easier to operate than any other aircraft. LockMart wants me to emerge from the simulation thinking the F-35 is cool. It certainly feels like an advanced plane. But that might turn out to be the Joint Strike Fighter’s downfall."

I'll leave youse to puzzle that one out by reading the article.

The old RAN FAA had TOOL CONTROL - never leave a TOOL in the cockpit. LM should enforce that rule. Twisted Evil

http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dange ... kerman.jpg

Forum: General F-35 Forum

F-35 Mock-Up/Sim pic