Forum: Program and politics

"A top procurement official issued an ultimatum to U.S. defense giant Lockheed Martin Thursday over its refusal to allow Korean pilots to conduct test flights of its F-35 fighter jet.

“Seoul may eliminate the F-35 from its fighter jet acquisition competition if Lockheed Martine does not comply with our demands,” Oh Tae-shik, head of the program management agency at the Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA), told The Korea Times.

“Lockheed Martin has yet to give an answer on whether the company will allow us to assess the performance of the F-35 by using a chase plane or a remote performance measuring device.”"

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/na ... 14053.html

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WTF? Who are they to demand anything, when even partner nations have yet to fly the jet. "Remote performance measuring device" - my a$$. Doh

Gee, you would think that after getting in the waiting line with the other allied partners, a 2012 demand for flying the a/c is certainly laughable. Laughing

After the Brits and Dutch (three this year 2012 and two next year 2013) get their trainers, it will be interesting to see the "pecking order" for getting a ride in the training a/c. With production and deliveries not arriving to the first US squadrons untill next year (LRIP 4/ 2013), none of the partners will be waiting around for a ride during the next few years. LRIP 5/ 2014 will fill out the first US squadrons to strength for each service. The the little IOC "thingee" that is still undefined (published). LRIP 6/ 2015 is the earliest arrival for the "FIRST" a/c for Italy (4) and Australia (2). And ....l"remote performance measuring device" must be a LM sales video. Wink

"Remote performance measuring device" = Telemetry transmitter

OLD NEWS anyway - face saving protest from South Koreans due b/s agitation. See this effort starting here:

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... t-120.html

aceshigh wrote:

WTF? Who are they to demand anything, when even partner nations have yet to fly the jet. "Remote performance measuring device" - my a$$. Doh

Are you really that naive to the ways of the business world? Your statement suggests it. Would you expect ANY government or customer to budget $100+ million per unit without having thoroughly tested the aircraft with a few of their own top people in the field? I suppose they should just take LM's word for it and make defense / budgetary plans based on that?

redbird87 wrote:

aceshigh wrote:

WTF? Who are they to demand anything, when even partner nations have yet to fly the jet. "Remote performance measuring device" - my a$$. Doh

Are you really that naive to the ways of the business world? Your statement suggests it. Would you expect ANY government or customer to budget $100+ million per unit without having thoroughly tested the aircraft with a few of their own top people in the field? I suppose they should just take LM's word for it and make defense / budgetary plans based on that?

Well, quite a few partners have done exactly that. Would you call all those governments "naive to the ways of the business world?" Laughing

redbird87 wrote:

Would you expect ANY government or customer to budget $100+ million per unit without having thoroughly tested the aircraft with a few of their own top people in the field? I suppose they should just take LM's word for it and make defense / budgetary plans based on that?

Isn't that how virtually all major defence programs start?

All the partner nations have been buying 2 for test and evaluation. If they want to fly it, they do the same.

I wish they would just decide one way or the other, enough drama already. If the Koreans really believe that being being stuck with warmed over previous generation technology for the next 30 years is in their best interests while their rivals adopt the new fighter paradigm, good luck to them.

popcorn wrote:

I wish they would just decide one way or the other, enough drama already. If the Koreans really believe that being being stuck with warmed over previous generation technology for the next 30 years is in their best interests while their rivals adopt the new fighter paradigm, good luck to them.

Amen!

Would it be possible that the Koreans are concerned that the actual "US profile" aircraft may have "goodies"/features that the simulator won't have? I'm guessing even partner nation a/c may have certain additional features. If so, I can understand LM/US's refusal to allow test flights on actual aircraft.

South Koreans appear to ape the Canuks - "the 'process' is wrong!" - however.... All done on this thread:

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... t-120.html

Seoul to rely on simulators to evaluate F-35 for F-X III contest Greg Waldron Singapore 14 June 2012

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... st-373006/

"...Pilots from the USAF, the US Navy, the US Marine Corps, the UK, the Netherlands, Australia, Italy, Israel and Japan have extensively flown the high-fidelity simulator and verified it is the best tool to evaluate F-35 capabilities," Lockheed says. "All of the international nations who have selected and ordered the F-35 have evaluated its capabilities using the manned tactical simulator."..."

The DoD is more than happy to allow a SK pilot to go through the flight training program and THEN fly the F-35. The problem is that SK want to put a pilot in a F35 and decide a winner before this Fall. That is simply not enough time to get a properly trained pilot and finish the evaluation cycle, by that time.

What does Korea have to get? The Typhoon which they denied them access to fly some capabilities. The superficial F-15SE and their joke of a program. A fighter that is not flying due to cracks and very questionable in its capabilities. My only bet is the F-35 or the Eurofighter. How silly of them to act this way to fly one of the most advanced(if not THE most advanced) before most countries that have put effort into the program and how their competitors are doing the same thing.

Forum: Program and politics

Korea threatens to disqualify F-35