Forum: F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics

jeffb wrote:

AIM-9X slides of the rail doesn't it? Inner door station is an ejector. Possibly they need to update/redesign the software on the AIM-9X to get it to perform a drop/engine fire sequence like AIM-120 or ASRAAM.

LtoR AIM-120, AIM-9, AGM-88:

They'll have clearance issues with those big fins won't they?

That's an earlier Sidewinder model (maybe an L) the 9X fins are a bit smaller.

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1st503rdsgt wrote:

jeffb wrote:

AIM-9X slides of the rail doesn't it? Inner door station is an ejector. Possibly they need to update/redesign the software on the AIM-9X to get it to perform a drop/engine fire sequence like AIM-120 or ASRAAM.

LtoR AIM-120, AIM-9, AGM-88:

They'll have clearance issues with those big fins won't they?

That's an earlier Sidewinder model (maybe an L) the 9X fins are a bit smaller.

So they are. Mia culpa:

A good side-by-side comparison of the history of the Aim-9

Bunch of nice line drawings here:
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... mp;p=17483

1st503rdsgt wrote:

In that case,

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Need a launcher system for it first. Still trying to figure out why you would think that a 9x wouldn't fit in the 35's weapons bay....

checksixx wrote:

1st503rdsgt wrote:

In that case,

Invalid image size

Need a launcher system for it first. Still trying to figure out why you would think that a 9x wouldn't fit in the 35's weapons bay....

Didn't say it wouldn't *fit*. I'm just curious why they haven't made the attempt.

1st503rdsgt wrote:

checksixx wrote:

1st503rdsgt wrote:

In that case,

Invalid image size

Need a launcher system for it first. Still trying to figure out why you would think that a 9x wouldn't fit in the 35's weapons bay....

Didn't say it wouldn't *fit*. I'm just curious why they haven't made the attempt.

Sorry...when I read your post and you said, "The AIM-9X will not fit in the internal bays...", I assumed you meant to say exactly that.

Tot there were some issues with the HMS? Would figure that's its easier to slave the AIM-120 to the radar than it is to maximise the AIM-9X firing solution without a workable hms. imho, its more a timing issue than anything.

checksixx wrote:

1st503rdsgt wrote:

checksixx wrote:

1st503rdsgt wrote:

In that case,

Invalid image size

Need a launcher system for it first. Still trying to figure out why you would think that a 9x wouldn't fit in the 35's weapons bay....

Didn't say it wouldn't *fit*. I'm just curious why they haven't made the attempt.

Sorry...when I read your post and you said, "The AIM-9X will not fit in the internal bays...", I assumed you meant to say exactly that.

Oops, guess I should have specified that I didn't mean size-wise.

My understanding was the 9X can't be launched sideways, it has to start out moving nose-first into the airstream on a rail like any other Sidewinder. Older Sidewinders had that issue because the aft tips of the fins have little gyroscopes in them, driven by the air moving over them. Those gyroscopes were critical to the missile's guidance system, preventing the body from rotating about its own axis so that the missile could track accurately with its spinning mirror guidance system. If the missile body was also rotating, the tracking from the mirror's rotation wouldn't have accurate timing. If you shove the missile out the doors sideways, the fin gyros don't get a chance to spin up, and asymmetrical wind loading on the fins imparts a spin on the body that the missile can't recover from. However, the 9X clearly doesn't have the airstream-driven fin gyroscopes any more, so I'm not sure why it would share that issue with older Sidewinders. Is my understanding of that limitation carrying to the 9X wrong?

SpudmanWP wrote:

Source = Deduction

Starting from the position that IOC will have external Blk2 9x, then when the Norway docs mentioned Blk2, I figure it will be internal.

But, I could be wrong, it's happened before. Wink

Personally I do not see the need for an internal 9x. I would much rather have the longer range, better datalink, seeker, warhead size, etc of the AIM-120D than a 9x.

Well, unless the Naval and Marine version happen to be carrying a the gun pod, they'll wish they had an AIM-9X or two if an up close fight comes their way. Even F-22s can find themselves in a knife fight. at which point all the stealth and 5th Gen avionics in the world won't change the fact that cannon rounds can rip through these craft like a hot knife through butter. Of course the F-22 is better off up close with thrust vectoring and it's gun/missile mix. I do not think the F-35 could even turn and burn to escape a Sukhoi or F-16 (or equivalent) equipped foe. AIM-9 capability would be helpful IMO.

As a related question, does anyone know if the B and C models will go out in the gun pod configuration as the rule, or selectively less and less than 50%?

Google AMRAAM minimum range and see why no 9X on the F-35.

I thought the lack of Aim-9xs were due to the lack of LOAL capabilities until the block II's come around.

redbird87 wrote:

SpudmanWP wrote:

Source = Deduction

Starting from the position that IOC will have external Blk2 9x, then when the Norway docs mentioned Blk2, I figure it will be internal.

But, I could be wrong, it's happened before. Wink

Personally I do not see the need for an internal 9x. I would much rather have the longer range, better datalink, seeker, warhead size, etc of the AIM-120D than a 9x.

Well, unless the Naval and Marine version happen to be carrying a the gun pod, they'll wish they had an AIM-9X or two if an up close fight comes their way. Even F-22s can find themselves in a knife fight. at which point all the stealth and 5th Gen avionics in the world won't change the fact that cannon rounds can rip through these craft like a hot knife through butter. Of course the F-22 is better off up close with thrust vectoring and it's gun/missile mix. I do not think the F-35 could even turn and burn to escape a Sukhoi or F-16 (or equivalent) equipped foe. AIM-9 capability would be helpful IMO.

Will the Sukhoi have dropped its external ordinance prior to the merge? Those have a huge impact on just how well the thing can turn after all.

An Sukhoi can easily take on a merge with 4-6 A2A missiles. Consider the weight/size/lift of an Sukhoi, it will not have the exact same penalty vs F-15/F-18/F-16 or any other fighter with external ordinance.

Compaired to F-35A, yes it will face an disadvantage, but so will the F-35 with its weight, wing/lift and thrust/Drag/weight ratio.

There are many more parameters to consider than just drag..

Forum: F-35 Armament, Stores and Tactics

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