Forum: Technology

Recently I've come upon and read up on the Have Dash and Have Dash II missile programs online, both of which aimed to build a stealth air-to-air missile.
While it seems the somewhat classified programs only focused on making the missile steath to radar, I feel that an F-22 or F-35 armed with such a weapon would have a much greater surprise factor when starting an engagement.
I would imagine that when a Raptor locks up a bandit and launches an AMRAAM, the soon-to-be-dead fourth gen airplane being fired upon has time to detect and attempt to evade the missile.

What do the resident experts of F-16.net think the impact of a VLO/LO A2A missile would be in combat? Cool

I'd also like to point out that both Have Dash programs seem to have been failures, from what I can see. Crying or Very sad

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Last edited by jetnerd on Jun 10, 2012 - 10:06 PM; edited 1 time in total

Interesting question. Not an expert, but my guess is the amraam can mostly be launched far enough outside detection range of, say, a Flanker's MAWS/irst, it will not be detected by the target acft until the seeker head goes active. In which case the aim120's rcs/ir signature is not so important. In which case I would think an LPI terminal guidance radar for the amraam would be a better project than minimizing missile rcs.

Be interested to hear from the experts on this too.

edit: modified my statement wrt adversaries with defensive optical/ir detection systems.

Detection of incoming AA missiles probably depends significantly on if they are inside of the target aircraft's forward radar cone. Otherwise, detection tends to be passive, depending IR or UV emissions from the rocket or radar emissions used for guidance. Presumably, an stealth would only give an advantage for head on BVR engagements before the missile goes active -- and that's if the target's radar is strong enough to detect a non-stealth missile at that range to begin with.
Though I suppose you could imagine a long range IR (or even AESA) guided missile with some low radiation emission engine (ramjet?) that could benefit.

The F-22 interfaces with the Amraam in unique ways that make the missile even more lethal. Of course, the details are classified.

This is not to mention the kinematic advantages the performance of the F-22 imparts on the missile.

A "stealth" A2A missile would be more urgently needed on 4th Gen jets than the F-22. The F-35 would need it before the F-22 does because:

1) It isn't a pure fighter like the F-22 and doesn't have the same level of fighter capability(s).

2) It doesn't carry as many A2A missiles on a typical stealthy loadout thus needs to maximize the PK of the missiles that it got on board.

As interesting as the topic is, it however is more appropriate to be placed in the "Technology" forum instead. The focus is on the missile, not the aircraft, which everybody will be talking about everything but the main focus of this forum, the F-22.

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

The F-22 interfaces with the Amraam in unique ways that make the missile even more lethal. Of course, the details are classified.

This is not to mention the kinematic advantages the performance of the F-22 imparts on the missile.

A "stealth" A2A missile would be more urgently needed on 4th Gen jets than the F-22. The F-35 would need it before the F-22 does because:

1) It isn't a pure fighter like the F-22 and doesn't have the same level of fighter capability(s).

2) It doesn't carry as many A2A missiles on a typical stealthy loadout thus needs to maximize the PK of the missiles that it got on board.

As interesting as the topic is, it however is more appropriate to be placed in the "Technology" forum instead. The focus is on the missile, not the aircraft, which everybody will be talking about everything but the main focus of this forum, the F-22.

Thanks for the info, and I'll be more careful with post locations in the future. Smile

Whether it matters after launch or not, a stealthy weapon hanging from a plane's external hardpoint doesn't have the same effect on the plane's overall radar signature that a non-stealthy weapon on the same hardpoint does.

My main question is can you retrofit existing missiles by painting the body with RAM to lower it's radar signature.

Could this make a cheap "Stealthy" missile, and would it work as a poor man's Stealth missile without all the fuss of redesigning the entire missile structure?

Quote:

kamenriderblade
My main question is can you retrofit existing missiles by painting the body with RAM to lower it's radar signature.

(My

from a layman's perspective) I'm sure painting existing missiles with RAM might have some small benefit (not sure how long that RAM would last during repeated loadouts and/or during pursuit of a target however). But it would never come close to a specifically designed stealth missile - it's only advantage would be cost, and even then the devil's in the details with these things! I welcome any feedback from those more knowledgeable than I.....

Forum: Technology

Stealth Air-to-Air Missiles