The Phantom and the Apache are examples of ugly looking awesome. The F-32 is just...funny. I really think it would have basically been even more of a stealthy A-7 than the F-35C is now.
Agreed on all points. And the A-7 was never much of a fighter, was it?
Ya, with all the claims about F-35 supposedly being a disaster, imagine how much worse it would be if they'd picked a JSF that looked like an F-16 had swallowed a bus.
My thoughts precisely!
Sorry, not in the F-35 "no need for manuverability" camp.
The F-35 is plenty maneuverable...we're talking about the YF-23.
I believe you missed the context of that... when Spudman mentioned EODAS, I presumed he meant the on-going theory (which is very frequently stated in F-35 fan circles) that "Maneuverability is irrelevant."- when the fighter is equipped with EODAS at least. While the EODAS system gives a dramatic advantage to whoever has it, I'm of the opinion that it doesn't make maneuverability irrelevant. And that supports my F-22>F-23 Argument.
Anyway, regardless of size, YF-23's bay depended on a specialized new mechanism that could, if one missile got stuck, end up blocking others behind it, and it wasn't ready to go yet anyway.
YF-22 fired both AMRAAM and Sidewinder. Another thing it did which YF-23 didn't was fly at 60┬░ angle of attack. YF-22 also flew almost 50% more hours & flights, and that was after entering the competition a month behind.
On the maneuverability issue, YF-22's advantage was not just the thrust vectoring but also the greater control surfaces. And the key was not just that it was more maneuverable, but when & where the difference in maneuverability was widest: at high altitudes and speeds, which is when & where a plane that depends on control surfaces loses maneuverability. They had similar speeds & ceilings, but YF-22 could make better use of them.
These are some very good points. In many cases, the stated abilities of the craft in competition don't matter- the proven performance of the fighters does. And not only was the 22' a better mix of capabilities, but it simply had a much better test run.