Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Some never before seen footage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlFxStiMw_g

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shingen wrote:

Some never before seen footage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlFxStiMw_g

"never before seen"

Looks like 50,279 people have seen it.

Anyways, very interesting video. Thanks for posting it. I liked the bit with the bunny.

Interesting video Shingen. Still makes you wonder how and why the Air Force made the decision it did. Possibly they thought he F-22 was the less risky way forward even if only from an aesthetics point of view.

What I have read is that both aircraft met/exceeded every benchmark. LM was judged as better able to complete on time/budget. Personally I prefer the looks of the 23. I also prefer the greater speed/"stealth" of the 23.

Nice video find. Thank you.

Interesting that to this day the details are still classified. Obviously someone thinks those details are still relevant, even if only as a reference point by which to make estimates of the F-22's capabilities.

I guess it'll be another generation before we'll know how and why the decision was made. A gorgeous and apparently impressively performing aircraft. And according to the Northrop designers, the better performing aircraft.

Great plane. Alien looking, in the best way possible. But the Raptor would eat it for lunch... no TVC.

firstimpulse wrote:

Great plane. Alien looking, in the best way possible. But the Raptor would eat it for lunch... no TVC.

In the last stages of WVR combat.
Before that, a production version F-23 would have a higher top speed and lower frc.
(I don't think the YF-23 was ever capable of firing missiles, but I could be wrong)

count_to_10 wrote:

firstimpulse wrote:

Great plane. Alien looking, in the best way possible. But the Raptor would eat it for lunch... no TVC.

In the last stages of WVR combat.
Before that, a production version F-23 would have a higher top speed and lower frc.
(I don't think the YF-23 was ever capable of firing missiles, but I could be wrong)

That was one of the reasons iirc. Also the A.F. didn't have too much confidence the N.G. team.

I have heard some fun stories that the F-23 did go into production as a black program and not alot of airframes were produced, but enough to "kill" the Raptor. I JUST love internet rumours hahahaha

God Bless
Jer

Last edited by SpudmanWP on Jun 11, 2012 - 01:10 AM; edited 1 time in total

The vid show the in-flight operation of the YF-23's bay doors, so I am not sure what you mean by "I don't think the YF-23 was ever capable of firing missiles".

That might have come from the new way that NG was going to use the internal bays for missile launch.

btw, IIRC the YF-22 did not launch any missiles either and the AMRAAM launcher that they did have was radically changed before it went into production.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/edo ... aws-01848/

Spud, the YF-22 did fire a missile, unlike the YF-23:http://www.f22-raptor.com/about/chronology.html. I think it's debatable how important the missile launchers were though. Those exhaust tiles look like a real killer to me.

Yeah, those tiles looked like a bone of contention to me too. Although, I believe that they could have simplified the installation & maintenance of them during development. What do they use on the B-2?

It's benefits (much larger weapons bay, "much" faster and a better RCS than the F-22, massive onboard computing power, etc) far outweigh it's problems (tiles, untested missile layout, etc). IMHO.

btw, The missile that YF-22 shot was an Aim-9, not an AMRAAM, at least according to your link.

p.s. Who else was disappointed in the PC police and the "hourglass" incident?

Quote:

btw, The missile that YF-22 shot was an Aim-9, not an AMRAAM, at least according to your link.

Something the YF-23 never did that the YF-22 did do:

Just another example that made the USAF more confident in the YF-22 when it can demonstrate something so early during the fly off period back then. What was even more impressive was that weapon separation / firing wasn't even a requirement during that time.

count_to_10 wrote:

firstimpulse wrote:

Great plane. Alien looking, in the best way possible. But the Raptor would eat it for lunch... no TVC.

In the last stages of WVR combat.
Before that, a production version F-23 would have a higher top speed and lower frc.
(I don't think the YF-23 was ever capable of firing missiles, but I could be wrong)

Both planes are too steathy for AMRAAMs to even see, so BVR combat against them in any capacity seems... far fetched. It would ONLY be a dogfight as far as I can see- and the jet that can turn better simply has a better chance of winning. IMO, the 23' is more like a 5th gen F-111 than F-15. Sure, it would still cream any 4th gen jet in most circumstances, but lack of TVC these days seems a bit... overconfident. Putting one of these up against a mature PAK-FA would be like early versions of the F-15 and Su-27 going at it... and while the Eagle had a huge BVR advantage, up close it was overmatched (if the Flanker's pilot was very good, that is).

Scorpion1alpha wrote:

Quote:

btw, The missile that YF-22 shot was an Aim-9, not an AMRAAM, at least according to your link.

Something the YF-23 never did that the YF-22 did do:

Thanks for the clarification. I was going off that timeline that was linked to.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-23 video