Forum: General F-16 forum

I've heard that aggressor pilots are among the best in the AF or Navy. What does it take to qualify for that gig? Is it a very in demand position?

Since these guys are such great pilots, do they get selected for tough combat missions in the event of a real war? Or do they always just work as instructors? You'd think they'd be the best to send into combat since they are constantly simulating it.

Also I was curious about who flies the Navy's F-16s? Are they naval aviators or are they USAF F-16 jocks who get a commission with the Navy?

F-16.net Sponsor

Ice,
In my experience, which is USAF (can't speculate on USN), we usually send guys on their 3rd or later fighter assignment to the Aggressors. That, by default, usually means they are a strong swimmer. A weak/lazy/etc. guy will usually get one tour in the jet and then he's off to UAS's, trainers, etc. He might get back into the fighter cockpit later, but he might not. A strong guy will get a follow-on fighter assignment, make IP shortly into that second assignment and, if he's elite among his peers, get Weapons School out of that assignment. My personal opinion, most guys look at the Aggressors as a great deal but it's about on-par with a 3rd Ops assignment. Of course some guys really want to go to the Aggressors and would look at it as a super-great deal and others will have their heart set on a 3rd Ops assignment or Weapons School and will look at assignment to the Aggressors as nice, but not what they wanted. Having said that, the Aggressors are not the first choice for a real-world deployment. The guys in the line units, Weapons School, etc. are the ones who have been training to US tactics and are thereby much better equipped to send to combat. That isn't to say that the Aggressors are any less capable pilots, on the contrary, but they have been executing ENEMY tactics day in and day out. A combat deployment requires a guy who's on-the-step with the latest US tactics.
USN F-16 A/B are flown by their Top Gun IP's at Fallon. Of course, sometimes they have USAF guys on exchange at Top Gun, but 99% of their Viper pilots are USN guys who are instructing at Top Gun.

Thanks a lot for the reply. Interesting stuff.

Regarding the Navy pilots that fly the F-16s at Top Gun, is it fairly easy to make the transition to the F-16 after flying Bugs and Super Bugs? As you said, most of the aggressors with AF are on their 3rd tour and they've most likely been flying Vipers the whole time. I'm sure those Navy jocks are great pilots, but they would have gotten their training on a different aircraft. Would they really be able to get the most out of their F-16s?

When I was at MacDill we trained the first Navy pilots for the 16 in the late 80s, No real problems but they were a little ham fisted at first. I had one guy land hard and dinged my speed brakes, stabs pretty bad. We had an IP who flew the 14 at Top Gun, he said the transition wasn't bad but the jets broke all the time. I worked with British, Belgians, German exchange pilots and maintence officers too.

icemaverick wrote:

Regarding the Navy pilots that fly the F-16s at Top Gun,... I'm sure those Navy jocks are great pilots,... Would they really be able to get the most out of their F-16s?

Do you think that the pilots that transitioned from the A-10 or F-4, to the F-16, are coming up short in their abilities in the jet? Seriously?

huggy wrote:

icemaverick wrote:

Regarding the Navy pilots that fly the F-16s at Top Gun,... I'm sure those Navy jocks are great pilots,... Would they really be able to get the most out of their F-16s?

Do you think that the pilots that transitioned from the A-10 or F-4, to the F-16, are coming up short in their abilities in the jet? Seriously?

I don't think so. You see, the military does this thing called "training", that's T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G . Maybe you've heard of it?

icemaverick wrote:

I'm sure those Navy jocks are great pilots, but they would have gotten their training on a different aircraft. Would they really be able to get the most out of their F-16s?

Ice,
Not to beat a dead horse, but this is no different than in the USAF. F-15C guys get sent to the Viper Aggressors all the time. Viper guys can go to the Eagle Aggressors (although they are closing). When it comes down to it, you are not flying an F-16C or F-15C and maximizing its offensive potential. You are simulating a MiG-29 or SU-27 with an F-16C or F-15C. The focus is not on your airframe but on enemy tactics/weapons replication.

BTW, the Navy also has quite a few F-5's doing Adversary work. Nobody in the USN/USMC is flying the Mighty Tiger II in their fleet squadrons. As Disco said, you show up, they teach you to fly the new jet, they teach you to replicate a bad guy with that jet and you're an Aggressor/Adversary. You are capable and competent at that job (more than likely) because you were capable in a front line tactical jet, regardless of type, and the new jet is really not an issue....at least I've never seen it to be.

Very interesting input , tts...

So by your comment, that F-15C aggressors will soon be closing operation(?), the obvious question could then be... what will USAF replace the F-15 aggressor-simulated platform with?

Simply stick with F-16 (ie Mig-29 class simulated) aggressor training? Don't bother with other heavier real-world class capabilities?

And a follow-up question one might have is, do Aggressors ever fly with a Sniper pod and/or Lockheed IRST pod into Air-air exercises when simulating 'Enemy tactics' as you say? That is, the hypothetical 'Enemy' will of course be relying on IRST as a likely part of their BVR Air-air tactics/engagements and thus should be trained against? Or for sake of simplicity in training, perhaps the Aggressors merely get their pertinent targeting data relayed to them, to simulate passive IRST data? Thanks in advance.

Great idea! Let's talk about the specifics of how the Aggressors train the CAF squadrons!

Geo,
I got the info on the F-15 Aggressors closing from Air Combat magazine. It's been out there for a while...since the fall I think. I have no clue what the plan is to replace the Eagles in the Aggressor role, I guess that's why they pay those Aggressor boys the big bucks!

Found a nice picture of 78-0528 on the internet.

http://i47.tinypic.com/wvevk6.jpg

Also on a side note. With the recent smack down by Congress to the Air Force. I would think most of the aircraft movements and retirements are on hold till next spring. When the bipartisan commision reports to congress what to do with all of the aircraft.

How about not junking anything until its 1-for-1 replacement comes in??

Rumsfeld was right. My hat goes off to the guy.

Forum: General F-16 forum

Aggressor pilots