Forum: General F-35 Forum

the F-35 flight test program has demonstrated none of its over-hyped “fifth-generation” capabilities,

if it works as advertised, however, and if its data is presented in a way the pilot can assimilate and use.

In any case, detection by radar matters less and less because by switching on its radar a fighter becomes as visible as someone turning on a flashlight in a dark room.

the small dimensions of its two bomb bays allow internal carriage of only two Amraam missiles and two JDAM guided bombs.

The F-35 is equipped with the APG-81 electronically-scanned radar, but this technology is already being retrofitted to previous-generation US fighters like the F-15E (APG-82(V)1 and the F-18E Super Hornet (APG-79); it is also available in pod form (AN/ASQ-236), has been exported to US allies, and is produced or in development by non-US manufacturers like Selex Galileo, Cassidian and Saab.

In fact, there is no need to fly the same aircraft: The only real requirement for joint operations is that participants be able to talk to each other and to exchange data, and this they have been able to do for decades.

PART 1. “Fifth-generation” and other myths

Calling the F-35 a “fifth-generation” fighter but the first nonsensical claim made about this aircraft.

Without going too far into historical details, the US Air force’s first operational jet fighter was the F-80; it was followed by the F-86 Saber, F-100 Super Saber, F-104 Starfighter, F-4 Phantom, F-15 Eagle, F-117 Nighthawk, and F-22 Raptor, each of which represents a generational leap over its predecessor. So, in fact, the F-22 Raptor represents the 8th generation of US jet fighters; just why the US Air Force and Lockheed chose to call the F-35 a “5th-generation” fighter is still a mystery.

Hats off to Lockheed’s P.R. staff, then: they coined a meaningless catchphrase which has gained widespread acceptance throughout the world by the sole virtue of repetition “ad nauseam”. And what politician is going to question such an impressive-sounding phrase, and the mysterious and powerful capabilities it implies?

Categorization is the process in which ideas and objects are recognized, differentiated and understood.[1] Categorization implies that objects are grouped into categories, usually for some specific purpose. Ideally, a category illuminates a relationship between the subjects and objects of knowledge. Categorization is fundamental in language, prediction, inference, decision making and in all kinds of environmental interaction.

When referring to modern fighter aircraft the term "5th Generation" seems to be carelessly thrown about here in ATS's discussion forums and other military aviation websites.
There needs to be some consistency in what is considered in a particular generation - this task however is certain to be the source of heavy discussions and potential disagreements.

For that reason, rather than entering in my own personal opinion I have researched other knowledgeable and respected sources in order to find an objective point of reference. In the interest of impartiality, any personal viewpoints of my own will be entered in this thread outside of this particular post.

So what constitutes a 5th Generation fighter? To answer this question I checked sources such as the Rand Corporation, our good and knowledgeable friends at Aerospaceweb.Org as well as various political and industry publications. It is from these sources that I have compiled a generational listing of fighters and the attributes that categorize them.


1st GENERATION: 1945-1955
The generational system for figher aircraft seems to start with post-WWII fighters.
These are typically subsonic jet aircraft with similar abilities to their piston engined counterparts, they also had similar limitations, such as a lack of radar, and WWII vintage weaponry such as dumb bombs and belt-fed machine guns.
Aircraft seen in dogfights over the skies of the Korean War typify this generation. Aircraft such as the MiG-15, MiG-17, F-86 Sabre, as well as the de Havilland Vampire, Supermarine Attacker, Saab Lansen and Dasault Ouragan.
(aircraft links go to pictures)



2nd GENERATION: 1955-1960
According to the Rand Corporation the 2nd generation of fighter aircraft had performance goals in such categories as supersonic speed, ceiling and rate of climb. In addition the technology driving the second generation centered around aerodynamics, propulsion and building materials. New technology advances also enabled this generation to incorporate radar and missiles into their list of assets.
Aircraft typical of this generation are the F-104 Starfighter, F-105 Thunderchief, F-106 Delta Dart, Dassault Mirage III, Saab Draken, MiG-19 & the MiG-21.


3rd GENERATION: 1960-1970
The 3rd generation is marked by technological refinements with a push toward improved maneuverability, multi-role capabilities (carrying out both air to air and ground attack).
Continued improvements in propulsion such as more reliable jet engines with increased thrust and the beginnings of large advances in avionics and weapons systems.
Fighter aircraft that flew in the Vietnam War are included in this group - the 3rd generation includes the F-4 Phantom, Northrop F-5, MiG-23, MiG-25, Sukhoi Su-15, Dassault Mirage F1 and the Dassault Super Etendard.


4th GENERATION: 1970-1990
The 4th generation includes notably more sophisticated avionics and weaponry brought on by advances in computers and system integration. Increased agility and flexibility in mission roles is also a typical attribute of the 4th gen. Examples of the 4th generation are the F-14, F-15, F-16, F-18, AV8 Harrier, MiG-29, MiG-31, Sukhoi Su-27, Panavia Tornado, Dassault Mirage 2000 and the Saab Viggen.


4.5 GENERATION: 1990-2000
The 4.5 generation is typified by many of the same attributes as the 4th generation aircraft except that they incorporate advanced technology that could be interpreted as that for the 5th generation. Dominant performance and technology goals for 4.5 is reduced radar cross section through advanced airframe shaping and radar absorbant materials being used in the construction. Highly advanced avionics are also a prerequisite for this category. The 4.5 generation includes F-18 Super Hornet, Sukhoi Su-33, Sukhoi Su-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, Saab Grippen and the Dassault Raphale. (it bears acknowledgement that Aerospaceweb says that the Typhoon and the Raphale are arguably somewhere between 4.5 and 5th generation.)


5th GENERATION: 2000-
The attributes that characterize the 5th generation of fighter aircraft include highly advanced avionics and stealthy sensory suites giving the pilot a comprehensive view of the entire battlespace. Also characterizing 5th gen is a combination of stealthy design and efficient supersonic speeds.
Aircraft that stand as examples of 5th generation fighters are the F-22 Raptor, the not yet operational F-35, and possibly the MiG MFI and Sukhoi Su-47, should either of them ever see production.

Hopefully this will serve as a good reference source for ATSers as there really is not much on the web to assist the curious in determining what constitutes a specified generation of aircraft.

Sources:
Aerospaceweb.Org
Rand Corporation
"Jet Fighter Development", Hallion (1990)


[edit on 4-3-2005 by intelgurl]

Is this moron a Canadian "journalist"?

Sure writes like one.

No he isn't. But he has a record of "special attention" to the F-35 on his website.

F-35 Reality Check Ten Years On -- Part 1: ‘Fifth-Generation’ and Other Myths
(Source: defense-aerospace.com; published May 9, 2012) By Giovanni de Briganti

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... rt-1).html

This is a long post so I'll just warn you with these quotes:

"...First of all, today’s F-35 can barely fly..."
&
"...The fact is that, today, after ten years and $50 billion, the F-35 flight test program has demonstrated none of its over-hyped “fifth-generation” capabilities, which are in any case incremental improvements over existing capabilities rather than the revolutionary quantum leaps they are made out to be. (end of Part 1)"

The fact that he called the F-117 a fighter serves only to underscore that.

Isn't the Harrier more of a 3rd gen aircraft?