Forum: Program and politics

Abandon F-16s, seek F-35s: senior military officials By J. Michael Cole 08 May 2012

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ ... 2003532288

"COST-CONSCIOUS:The rising costs associated with two F-16 programs might make waiting for the next-generation fighters more palatable.

Senior military officers may be considering abandoning a long-stalled bid to procure F-16C/D aircraft from the US because of rising costs and could instead reserve budgets for an eventual F-35B bid, reports said yesterday....

...Although Taiwan would buy fewer F-35s than F-16s, their acquisition would still be beneficial to its defenses, they said.

Yang told the US-Taiwan Defense Industry Conference in Richmond, Virginia, last year that Taiwan was interested in acquiring the F-35 at some point."

Much MORE at the JUMP! Very Happy

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Why in the world would they want B models?? I would think that most countries would want the C model due to its advantages over the other two. Most Harriers may have been carried by ship somewhere, but typically operate out of a land based installation. I'm honestly surprised the Marines are not buying a mixed bag of B's and C's.

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I'm honestly surprised the Marines are not buying a mixed bag of B's and C's.

Actually, I think they are.

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I would think that most countries would want the C model due to its advantages over the other two.

If I were Taiwan, I'd go for the F-35C. Taiwan has roadways all over the country that are prepared to act as make shift airbases. The F-35C is better suited for operating in a rugged environment. It also has a little more range, which would be useful if Taiwan had to make strikes on ballistic missile batteries deep inside mainland China.

More Marines to fly carrier variant JSFs By C. P. Cavas - Mar 14, 2011

http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/03/n ... f_031411w/

"...The Navy Department still intends to buy 680 F-35 joint strike fighters. Of those, 260 will be Navy F-35Cs, another 80 F-35Cs will be Marine aircraft, and the STOVL version for the Corps will make up 340 planes, or half the total Navy-Marine JSF fleet. The Lightnings will serve alongside a total fleet of 556 F/A-18 Es and Fs...."

This quote from 'discofishing' had me smiling: "...The F-35C is better suited for operating in a rugged environment...." HUH?

If the US has denied the ROCAF request for new-built F16, how likely is it they will sell them more advanced F-35S?
Still, at the rate the PLANAF is modernizing and expanding its inventory, Washington may eventually have to consider providing the F-35 to provide a degree of parity .

Report: Taiwan weighs gamechanger with purchase of U.S. F-35B stealth jetfighters Special to WorldTribune.com 20 May 2012

http://www.worldnewstribune.com/2012/05 ... tfighters/

"In a major policy reversal, Taiwan’s defense officials have indicated they may forego further upgrades to their current F-16A/B fleet and instead purchase the next-generation F-35B stealth fighter, according to Taiwan’s China Times.

Taiwan’s mainstay combat aircraft is the F-16A/B block 20. Taiwan currently has 145 such advanced aircraft in service.

However, with China’s rapid military modernization, especially its improvement in building combat aircraft, Taiwan’s F-16A/Bs have shown shortcomings.

The Obama administration’s solution is not to sell Taiwan the newer and more advanced F-16C/Ds for fear of offending China, but to upgrade the existing F-16A/Bs.

But Taiwan military authorities have not given up on lobbying for the purchase of the F-16C/Ds from Washington...."

Youse have to pay to read more and I am not.... Very Happy

This is a stupid plan for the ROCAF. The US probably is already cautious about selling them the latest tech because of Chinese spying. That concern will clearly extend to the F-35B. They would be better off working on upgrading their Air Force or SAM defenses, instead of wasting their time with the F-35B.

(ps. If they could get it, the F-35B is the only airplane they should buy. It would instantly free them from the fear of runway cratering and radically reduce the effect of Chinese ballistic missiles. Though, one could ask if they should spend their limited funds on aircraft instead of a more "Hezbollah" style of defense)

I'm not sure now - is it a 'stupid plan' or not - according to 'arkadyrenko'?

If US officials are politically struggling to get upgrades for F-16A/B models I just don't see how they can muster the will to sell ROC a stealth strike fighter.
Currently US officials can speak to the point that the F-16 sales are intended for the 'air defense' of Taiwan. That same story wouldn't hold any water at all for the F-35.
The real purpose for the JSF in ROCAF hands is to blow things up on the ground.......in China.

Last edited by popcorn on May 22, 2012 - 06:28 AM; edited 1 time in total

archeman wrote:

If US officials are politically struggling to get upgrades for F-16A/B models I just don't see how they can muster the will to sell ROC a stealth strike fighter.
Currently US officials can speak to the point that the F-16 sales are intended for the 'air defense' of Taiwan. That same story wouldn't hold any water at all for the F-35.
The real purpose for the JSF in ROCAF hands is to blow things up on the ground.......in China.

It is multirole so it can blow up things on the ground as well as mitigate the threat posed by the significantly larger and increasingly more capable PLAAF.

Ya, they're so interested in attacking a many-times-larger country that they want to spend more money on more mechanically complex planes with less range, less payload, and less gun.

I'm with arkadyrenko, B's are better since PRC has enough superiority that even the back-up strips would probably targeted pretty quickly. And if I were Taiwan, I would be pouring money into attack submarines, sea mines, and SAMs.

The F-35B has more range than the F-16A/B. It can also carry a gun if needed.

The important thing to remember is that it is much more survivable than the F-16A/B (even after upgrades).

spazsinbad wrote:

This quote from 'discofishing' had me smiling: "...The F-35C is better suited for operating in a rugged environment...." HUH?

Perhaps he meant that the C can potentially handle tougher strips because of the strengthened structure and landing gear? That's what I gleaned from it.
Seems like a valid argument actually.
Whistle

Yes, but then you make countless sacrifices. Increased wetted area leading to increased skin friction drag, damaged area ruling thanks to the change in wing sans modifications to the fuselage to match leads to high wave drag, and no substantial change in engine thrust specs coupled with the various drag increases in various freestream mach number regimes and increased weight can only lead to crap SEP vs. the other variants. All of these sacrifices are made for what, slightly increased range and mission radius? The C variant should almost be thrown out of the question in that case and the B should be procured if Taiwan seriously wishes to push forward with their plan to procure the F-35. With the B they can make better use of those highways as makeshift airbases as previously mentioned due to not needing such a takeoff ground roll.

Forum: Program and politics

Abandon F-16s, seek F-35Bs: Taiwan senior military officials