Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Did the Air Force really install what looked like standard gas mask filters into the oxygen system thinking it would solve the problem? Not really surprised it didn't work and may have made the problem worse since I doubt it was designed to work in a pressurized system of almost pure oxygen.

Very interesting story with courageous pilots willing to raise the BS flag. Outrageous that they need a congressman and the whistle blower act at their 6...

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I think it's awesome and necessary what these pilots are doing. I just hope they don't become martyr's.

f22spec wrote:

I think it's awesome and necessary what these pilots are doing. I just hope they don't become martyr's.

My amateurish 2¢:

If for whatever reason(s) the F-22's design isn't suited for OBOGS, then why not simply yank the sucker out and revert to an old O2 tank system, as many have suggested in the past?

Yeah, I know, time and $$$... So maybe start out by converting one airframe to O2 and conduct a BLIND test... Have these two pilots try out two jets for a few weeks, one O2 and one OBOGS, and note the results (symptoms, bloodwork...). (Or have they tried this already?)

None of us here can claim any real insight into what the problem is or how to fix it; but the fact that ANY pilot would refuse to fly the F-22 is an indication that the USAF and LM have handled this issue in the most pigheaded/hamfisted way possible.

What puzzles me is that this thing has been flying since 1997, and only NOW there are pilots "coming out" about this allegedly rampant problem?

em745 wrote:

What puzzles me is that this thing has been flying since 1997, and only NOW there are pilots "coming out" about this allegedly rampant problem?

The F-22 that came out in 1997 is not the same one version that became operational in 2005. External and internally things have changed. Systems take time to mature and big differences between testing and operating. This mysterious problem started in 2008.

Could it be that some of the pilots are simply not physically fit enough to fly this plane? After all it is vastly more maneuverable than anything that came before it and all the O2 in the world isn't going to help you if the blood rushes out of your brain. Maybe thats why it seems like the AF is dragging its feet on this and not finding anything technically wrong.

I don't want to make any judgements on this, but it gives me the same feeling as that "sudden acceleration" thing.

em745 wrote:

What puzzles me is that this thing has been flying since 1997, and only NOW there are pilots "coming out" about this allegedly rampant problem?

If you watch the 60 minutes episode, you'll see at the beginning that they wouldn't even give their name or rank at first. It was only after being protected by the Whistleblower act and talking to a congressman that they felt safe enough to talk about these issues.

The truth is, the public doesn't even know the half of what's going on with this issue. It's not necessarily classified, but it's very closely guarded and not many people feel comfortable putting their career's on the line. Look at Bradley Manning, he thought he was doing the right thing, but now he faces life in jail. Just because information isn't classified, doesn't mean you can just go out and talk about it.

@f22spec

I get that.

But again, the production plane's been around for ~15 years... And to hear these guys talk you'd think every single pilot in the fleet has been walking around in a permanent state of vertigo all this time due to the F-22's big bad OBOGS bugaboo. ('Cause if it is an OBOGS problem, you'd think hypoxia symptoms would've shown up from the get go.)

"Closely guarded??" Some of the the symptoms these guys are describing don't seem all that subtle to me (e.g. dizziness, can't hold on to a water bottle...). Don't these guys have families, friends, doctors/flight surgeons, etc. that would also notice these things? That's a lot of people to hush up in that time span.

Two pilots from the same ANG unit... me thinks that they are more worried about their "day job".

count_to_10 wrote:

I don't want to make any judgements on this, but it gives me the same feeling as that "sudden acceleration" thing.

If you don't mind me asking what was that "sudden acceleration" thing?

SpudmanWP wrote:

Two pilots from the same ANG unit... me thinks that they are more worried about their "day job".

Just because the pilots are from the ANG doesn't mean that their opinions and concerns are invalid.

I was a tanker on the M1 and there are plenty of things that we did that could get us killed, equipment wise.

The fact is that they are whiners, are not adding anything new to the discussion, and most certainly do not qualify as "whistleblowers".

scruffer wrote:

count_to_10 wrote:

I don't want to make any judgements on this, but it gives me the same feeling as that "sudden acceleration" thing.

If you don't mind me asking what was that "sudden acceleration" thing?

The cars that people claimed were accelerating when they pressed the break.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

60 Minutes story on F-22 pilots