Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

disconnectedradical wrote:

It's a no brainer that Sprey is an ardent critic of the F-22. In a recent interview by ABC...

Are you referring to this interview > http://www.booktv.org/Watch/12175/After+Words+William+Hartung+Prophets+of+War+hosted+by+Pierre+Sprey.aspx?

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VarkVet wrote:

Old guys rule and so do old airplanes! When you fan boys stop your Kool-Aid induced dreaming and figure out a solution to fix these so called 5th Gen Deloreans. I’ll stay with the F-16.

And a 144 to NONE kill ratio against those 16's isn't enough to convice you otherwise? Rolling Eyes

Oh, well I guess eventually an F-16 got a kill on a Raptor... but only after the 16's entire squad was splashed and the F-16 that fired the kill shot was also destroyed.
Trying to compare an F-22 to an F-16 is like comparing an F-86 to a P-51. Except the gap has widened since then.

Dude, you sound even less informed than Sprey. Nations don't spend billons of dollars on stuff just because it's pretty.

firstimpulse wrote:

[Trying to compare an F-22 to an F-16 is like comparing an F-86 to a P-51. Except the gap has widened since then.

It's probably more like comparing an F-4E to an F-86, but you're absolutely right.

VarkVet wrote:

Old guys rule and so do old airplanes! When you fan boys stop your Kool-Aid induced dreaming and figure out a solution to fix these so called 5th Gen Deloreans. I’ll stay with the F-16.

The Sprey fanboys, stealth is the overriding factor. I don't want to say they don't comprehend, maybe mis-understanding.

Stealth changes everything.

Like a sniper or submarine able to engage and disengage at will. Manuever into the optimal firing position, without being seen. In the F-22 case, numerous reports of the Raptor in visual range, and not being able to get a lock. Manuever although important is not the only factor. Attacking at BVR keeping the battle at arms length unless absolutely neccesary to close-in, always play to your strengths, that is what is taught in basic fighter combat, and the F-22 has alot of strengths.

OK the F-22 has maintenance issues, if that is all they have left to hang there hat on, I'll bet the F-15 is more maintenace heavy than the F-4.

Fighter mafia doesnt consider enemy air defences as danger to modern fighters. Which is strange because there is even wider gap between SA-2 and S-300/400 then between YF-16 and F-22.

I would accept their ultra light weight fighter concept if it is something like:
http://imageshack.us/f/16/dsc000020001.jpg/

It is light, very agile, fast (supercruise), doesnt have powerful radar and likely cheaper then F-22/35. But it is stealth which is waste by them.

It looks like those old Northrop ATF proposals. It's too bad the AF was wanting something so much bigger.

Doesn't fuel/armarment/avionics take up space though? Space worth having? That "ultra light weight" fighter looks like it has no radar (relying on AWACs for missile guidance?), and perhaps space for two missiles and a gun with token ammo. I think bigger would be better at this extreme.

Long story short, I think the Fighter Mafia have outlived their usefulness. The rules of the game have changed since four decades ago.

The real problem with Sprey et al. is the fact that they continuously support their arguments with half-truths and misleading information. To those who aren’t “in the business” or not enthusiasts those arguments can sound very logical and persuasive. It’s also a classic example of squeaky wheel gets the grease; they make all the noise and tend to get lots of coverage because of it. It also helps when the “reporter” has an ax to grind or wants to frame his piece then these guys are the “experts” they turn to. The ABC piece is a classic example sadly…

BDF wrote:

The real problem with Sprey et al. is the fact that they continuously support their arguments with half-truths and misleading information. To those who aren’t “in the business” or not enthusiasts those arguments can sound very logical and persuasive. It’s also a classic example of squeaky wheel gets the grease; they make all the noise and tend to get lots of coverage because of it. It also helps when the “reporter” has an ax to grind or wants to frame his piece then these guys are the “experts” they turn to. The ABC piece is a classic example sadly…

It's behavior that apparently goes back to his days at the Pentagon.. when it wouldn't fly there in front of the real experts, he and other critics left and decided that the court of public opinion and mass media would be more to their advantage.

firstimpulse wrote:

VarkVet wrote:

Old guys rule and so do old airplanes! When you fan boys stop your Kool-Aid induced dreaming and figure out a solution to fix these so called 5th Gen Deloreans. I’ll stay with the F-16.

And a 144 to NONE kill ratio against those 16's isn't enough to convice you otherwise? Rolling Eyes

Oh, well I guess eventually an F-16 got a kill on a Raptor... but only after the 16's entire squad was splashed and the F-16 that fired the kill shot was also destroyed.
Trying to compare an F-22 to an F-16 is like comparing an F-86 to a P-51. Except the gap has widened since then.

Dude, you sound even less informed than Sprey. Nations don't spend billons of dollars on stuff just because it's pretty.

REALLY?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1EaF50O-C8

VarkVet wrote:

firstimpulse wrote:

VarkVet wrote:

Old guys rule and so do old airplanes! When you fan boys stop your Kool-Aid induced dreaming and figure out a solution to fix these so called 5th Gen Deloreans. I’ll stay with the F-16.

And a 144 to NONE kill ratio against those 16's isn't enough to convice you otherwise? Rolling Eyes

Oh, well I guess eventually an F-16 got a kill on a Raptor... but only after the 16's entire squad was splashed and the F-16 that fired the kill shot was also destroyed.
Trying to compare an F-22 to an F-16 is like comparing an F-86 to a P-51. Except the gap has widened since then.

Dude, you sound even less informed than Sprey. Nations don't spend billons of dollars on stuff just because it's pretty.

REALLY?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1EaF50O-C8

I don't think I was supposed to laugh that hard.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Why criticized by Sprey?