Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Looking at the past 4 USAF annual procurement budgets, the "F119 engine modifications" have hovered around $10m per year. But in FY13 the budget for that item has jumped to $33m.

Any guesses why the big increase?

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Maybe somthing to do with the crash in Alaska?

munny wrote:

Looking at the past 4 USAF annual procurement budgets, the "F119 engine modifications" have hovered around $10m per year. But in FY13 the budget for that item has jumped to $33m.

Any guesses why the big increase?

These are typically continual improvement process (CIP) contracts

Every engine has CIP contracts; from the F135 to the oldest TF33 and everything in between.

Without it the US Gov would have no OEM support after the contracts to 'purchase' the engines had expired. No improvements, no changes, no enhancements, etc.

I'd figure the 'higher' number reflects the fact that all the F119s that WERE under contract have been delivered and ongoing 'modifications' to the engines will need to be specifically addressed since the "contract including production engines, spare parts, program management, engineering support for production, sustainment and field support for the engines" has been completed.

If something was identified by the fine propulsion folks of the USAF, or within PW that will prolong the life of the engines, increase safety, or address an unforeseen design or material 'issue' can also cause a step-increase like this above 'normal' CIP budgeted increases. Modifications to the engine past the accepted/contracted F119 design must be funded after-the-fact.

(Fictional examples follows)

Say the F119s as a whole are experiencing usual cracks on gearbox mounts, that are found to be the result of air-frame vibration. This vibration is only present when the Raptor carries external drop-tanks and flies north of a Winnipeg to Toronto line....

Anyhow.... to 'fix' this problem the USAF and PW Engineers determine that a new gearbox case design with oversized bushings and new mount hardware will not only eliminate further chances of cracking but allow the gearbox case last to 10,000 hours versus only 3,000 hours between being replaced at depot. This not only makes the gearbox/motor safer, but will save the USAF money having to buy 1/3 the gearboxes over the expected life-cycle of the F119 program. (Can't save big $$ without spending some $$) The gearbox design must be qualified and placed into production so the first ones overhauled can receive the newest PN design.

Someone needs to pay for this, new gearbox cases for 400+ F119s aren't cheap. PW isn't going to pay for them out of pocket. After all, the USAF said the origional design with the 3K hour life was what they wanted, and the 'unusual case' causing cracks in the approved design was unknown to PW or the USAF at the time of the delivery contract(s); PW was paid $XX to provide Y number of engines; support past delivery (IE after production has stopped) must be funded by the US GOV to keep PW supporting the engine. This will continue until the end of F119 operations. Some years higher, but rarely lower.

At any rate, it is VERY UNLIKELY the F119 funding to PW has anything to do with the mishap in AK.

Keep 'em flyin' Thumb

TEG

Well there we have it. One of these days TEG will really try to explain in detail what's what in the engine business. Salute

TEG should set up a PayPal account first. The subscription fee will be astronomical.

TEG is correct. Pratt has 2 F119s that are just for R&D. One is an AMT and the other is for CIP work. The Air force has like 2 or 3 engines just for AMT work as well. Pacer engines. And believe me these engines are not babied either.

Thanks for the explanation TEG, makes perfect sense.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

What's happening with the F119?