Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Well, the IAFis due to play this year (in the summer) so no F-35 V MKI yet. Weren't they forbidden from using some of their radar's more high performance modes last time anyways?

HV

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It was all a question of logistics and costs in my eyes.

The current Indian weapon inventory is Russian and French. Infact, a few months ago they made a massive order for more French missiles.

Choosing the Typhoon would have meant the extra cost of purchasing a whole new set of weapons, such as Sidewinder or Amraam which bring with them American technology transfer issues. Indeed, Typhoon itself is subject to the US approving technology transfer for every export sale. All that costs money.

On the logisitics side, it would be a third seperate weapon inventory to make sure got re supplied to the right base on time at a time of war, more time and cost.

Rafale was simply cheaper and simpler for the Indians.

UAE is looking different though. After publically cancelling their Rafale order citing the cost was far too high, they are now in negotiations with Eurofighter. As they already operate the F16E, there are no technology issues with the states and their weapons are cleared for or can easily be cleared for the Typhoon.

Andy

The massive A2A missile order from MBDA was a clear indication of India's choosing the Rafale over Typhoon. The UAE will end up ordering the Rafale as their situation is similar to India..India's air force buys only Russian and French stuff and UAE's airforce buys only US and French so the Typhoon's chances in the UAE is virtually ZERO !
Remember,they also made some inquiries about the SH although they would never buy it. What they have been trying to do was putting some pressure on Dassault to lower the price.

HaveVoid wrote:

Well, the IAFis due to play this year (in the summer) so no F-35 V MKI yet. Weren't they forbidden from using some of their radar's more high performance modes last time anyways?

HV

That's true about the radar. That bit about the Rafale's disqualification was actually just a hoax to troll the Rafale fanboys.

I'm now looking forward to our F-16 and F-15 drivers schooling the Indians at Red Flag!

shingen wrote:

Shocking development. I thought they'd go EF for the anti ISR mission. Any speculation that they chose Rafale so that it can carry one munition of a certain type at low level discretely? I'll be looking out for news stories about Dassault integrating "indigenously developed munitions."

They chose Rafale to have a common parts supply between the Air Force and the future Navy Rafale-M order.

southernphantom wrote:

tacf-x wrote:

Zippos?

F-35s. It's a roughly F-16-size aircraft with large amounts of internal fuel and no onboard fire suppression systems. When you put two and two together, you get a Zippo-like fireball and an ACES V worshiper.

How many more years till you were old enough to join the Air Force, did you say? Shocked

Those Indian carriers are sure gonna be cramped with the MIGs, the Tejas and now some of you guys wanna add Rafales too..

wrightwing wrote:

southernphantom wrote:

tacf-x wrote:

Zippos?

F-35s. It's a roughly F-16-size aircraft with large amounts of internal fuel and no onboard fire suppression systems. When you put two and two together, you get a Zippo-like fireball and an ACES V worshiper.

How many more years till you were old enough to join the Air Force, did you say? Shocked

I could enlist in under two years, what's your point?? Embarassed

Quote:

And those canards on the MKI will make it's RCS roughly that of a B-52... No problem for the -81. Remember, it's not about detecting the F-35, it's about the ability to detect and target it at a range that exceeds the range at which it will shove a missile down your throat.

Funny you should mention that. At Red Flag 2008. The MKI while their BARS was in pre-set training mode, they was able to detect and target contacts with less 'blue on blue' than any US Sq..
US fighter had their Data links up, and a few times even had the support of a E-3 AWACS as well.
Now, how about that. Big No No

The E-3 is an interesting bird. The trick is for it not to start pouring smoke seconds after engine start Laughing

southernphantom wrote:

wrightwing wrote:

southernphantom wrote:

tacf-x wrote:

Zippos?

F-35s. It's a roughly F-16-size aircraft with large amounts of internal fuel and no onboard fire suppression systems. When you put two and two together, you get a Zippo-like fireball and an ACES V worshiper.

How many more years till you were old enough to join the Air Force, did you say? Shocked

I could enlist in under two years, what's your point?? Embarassed

My point is that you're already nick naming an aircraft, not yet in service, that has yet to demonstrate a propensity for being zippo-like, and you have no prior aviation experience. I'd say that it's perhaps a bit premature to make matter of fact statements like that, when I'm sure the many F-35 critics would've chimed in, if in testing, they discovered its flammability to be a safety issue.

wrightwing wrote:

southernphantom wrote:

wrightwing wrote:

southernphantom wrote:

tacf-x wrote:

Zippos?

F-35s. It's a roughly F-16-size aircraft with large amounts of internal fuel and no onboard fire suppression systems. When you put two and two together, you get a Zippo-like fireball and an ACES V worshiper.

How many more years till you were old enough to join the Air Force, did you say? Shocked

I could enlist in under two years, what's your point?? Embarassed

My point is that you're already nick naming an aircraft, not yet in service, that has yet to demonstrate a propensity for being zippo-like, and you have no prior aviation experience. I'd say that it's perhaps a bit premature to make matter of fact statements like that, when I'm sure the many F-35 critics would've chimed in, if in testing, they discovered its flammability to be a safety issue.

It has a nickname in the UK already... The F35 is called the 'Dave'

haavarla wrote:

Funny you should mention that. At Red Flag 2008. The MKI while their BARS was in pre-set training mode, they was able to detect and target contacts with less 'blue on blue' than any US Sq..
US fighter had their Data links up, and a few times even had the support of a E-3 AWACS as well.
Now, how about that. Big No No

I seem to recall that it was the IAF having issues with fratricide, due to having less situational awareness, without the compatible datalinks, the US fighters had.

thestealthfighterguy wrote:

Are these the so called Super Rafale's with the upgraded engines and AESA? I hear they've been testing one but I'm not sure.

Su-30MKI + Rafale + RED FLAG = F-35 bait! Can't wait to see it!

All Rafales delivered from 2013 on will have AESA and some earlier ones may be retrofitted. Although Snecma has demonstrated an M88 "ECO" with thrust potential up to 2,000 lbs, it's doubtful that India is willing to pay for its development if the existing engine meets their needs.

tacf-x wrote:

SH was ruled out due to poor A2A performance due to all of the bells and whistles added onto and into the airframe.

The Navy was looking for more strike capability when DoD told them to buy the SH, but even the more agile earlier versions were 7.5g aircraft, that didn't meet the Indian requirements in that area. The F-16IN is the one that really suffered with everything that was hung on it. Even with the big GE engine, the conformals' weight and drag really compromised its A2A relative to the Block 50s.

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Dassault Rafale has won the Indian fighter contest !