Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Salute!

Sorry, maus, but the A-7 program was started by USN before any decision was made about the F-111B.

It was to be the big brother of the Scooter and also replace the Skyraider.

Due to USAF's experience in 'nam, it developed the "D", which I flew, and it was a cosmic attack jet. It easily outperformed the F-100 in CAS, and it had better legs, more payload and laser-like bomb accuracy.

So by the time I got back from my first tour ( A-37), the plane was in testing and soon went into production. Got my assignment to the first operational wing in late 1971, then went to Korat in Oct of 1972. Went back again in 1975 and led the last flight of Sluf's outta the theater in December.

So there was no conflict with the F-111 program, and we had a great attack jet for another 20 years.

Gums sends...

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Last edited by maus92 on Feb 09, 2012 - 02:46 PM; edited 1 time in total

double post

Last edited by maus92 on Feb 09, 2012 - 02:47 PM; edited 1 time in total

double post

Last edited by maus92 on Feb 09, 2012 - 02:49 PM; edited 1 time in total

Gums, maybe I wasn't clear The CAS requirement was spunoff from McNamara's vision of the TFX program in 1961, and became VAX (which eventually resulted in the A-7):

"York held the Committee on Tactical Air from March to May. During this period, the committee addressed two separate issues. Could the TFX support the Navy’s need for the Missileer aircraft request? Additionally, could the TFX supply the close air support needs for the Navy, Marines and Army? Assistant Secretary of the Navy for Research and Development, Dr. James Wakelin, contested the possibility of either of these options and quickly became the spokesman for all of the services except the Air Force. He was soon asked to become a member. The committee listened to his opinions, but also analyzed the tactical air requirements for the military from 1962-1971. The committee quickly came to the realization that one aircraft could never fulfill all the needs of all the services to satisfaction of every military branch.
The Committee offered its final decision on 19 May, 1961 as part of Project 34. They could not reconcile the needs for a simple, slow and small close air support vehicle wanted by the Army and Marines from the complicated, fast, and large aircraft that the TFX represented. The results of the study forced McNamara to accept two separate aircraft to fulfill the tactical air needs of the services. The first was to be called the VAX (attack aircraft, experimental) and the other TFX (tactical fighter, experimental). The Navy would administer and source the VAX, while the Air Force would administer the TFX."

BRIAN L. REECE, MAJOR, USAF, "DEVELOPMENT OF THE TFX F-111 IN THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE'S SEARCH FOR MULTI-MISSION, JOINT-SERVICE AERIAL PLATFORMS," 2011. (Pg. 91)

double post

Salute!

Great post, maus.

I misunderstood you and thot you were implying that the A-7 program started well down the road and not as far back as 1961.

Being in the A-37, I had a front row seat on USAF's change in philosophy and all of us that flew the Dragonlfy were convinced that we laid the groundwork for the A-X program. The pilots in the flyoff were from our outfit at England AFB.

USAF was desperately trying to keep the CAS mission and the Army was developing attack helos. Further, the threat was also changing in Europe, hence the big gun on the Warthog.

Gums sends...

Quote:

It (A-7) easily outperformed the F-100 in CAS, and it had better legs, more payload and laser-like bomb accuracy.

And it had a 'Mark' button so you could keep your speed up and fly back to the same spot predictably from any approach angle.

The absolute closest I ever came to killing myself was in an F-100 doing practice CAS with a ground FAC at Ft. Campbell and doing tighter & tighter circles at lower & lower speeds at relatively low altitude (eventually very low) to keep the intersection of two stupid tree lines in sight. Shocked

A-7D was a quantum leap in attack aircraft (and I hit hit the A/A Dart the first time I tried in an A-7. Took two attempts in the Hun.)

Did the F-111 have a 'Mark' button? Does the F-35 have a 'Mark' voice command?

Very Happy

Salute!

Yeppers, OL, that thing had more goodies than the Viper did.

Best use of the "mark" button was locating a survivor in the SAR role, then marking all the turn points back out to where the Jolly was waiting.

Escorting him into the pick up was like, "stby to turn to 045 and next turn will be 23 miles", etc. Naturally, we had made the survivor's position a "destination" by freezing the moving map and hitting "enter", and same for the Jolly's orbit.

That terrain following radar also helped in the poor weather down low.

We flew two and a half hour missions carrying 10 x 500 eggs, and no refueling, So you can work out our combat radius easily.

Gums sends...

Seriously? Even at 350 knots that a 875nm radius. The SLUFF was that awesome? And you'll have to forgive me (only 29 years old) not sure I am following how the "Mark" function works differently then what is available in the Viper. I wish to know more.

Salute!

Not 800 mile radius, but figure 350 nm radius of action to have 1000 pounds when back home. For example, we would fly from Korat to III Corps in S VietNam and drop one at a time, then RTB. Same for Phnom Penh.

Linebacker II to Hanoi was unrefueled with 2 x 2000 eggs since outboard stations had ECM pods.

Cruised at about 400 kt GS ingress and 20,000 to 25,000 ft, 480 or so RTB and 35,000 ft. 2 x 300 gallon wing tanks, 10 x 500 eggs on mers/ters.

I flew once non-stop from McChord WA to Myrtle Beach SC using 4 tanks. Tailwind helped, heh heh.

Gums sends...

Return Salute!

I think Gums and OL should get together and write a book. Here's a start with a view of the front office:
http://www.patricksaviation.com/files/p ... _31904.jpg
fisk

Oh okay I read that as 2.5 hr each way. Now I feel all silly.

fisk:

Gums' military career is certainly the best bet for a book.

My life was pretty mundane except for the time I was abducted by aliens. Shocked

klaatu barada nicto, OL

Oh - that day. Very Happy

outlaw162 wrote:

fisk:

Gums' military career is certainly the best bet for a book.

My life was pretty mundane except for the time I was abducted by aliens. Shocked

klaatu barada nicto, OL

I knew I recognized you from the big screen!! haha
fisk

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

F-35 compared to TFX (F-111)