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Newbie Joined: Sep 26, 2006 Posts: 2 Status: Offline

I remember watching a show, where the Air Force did mock dog fights Raptor vs. 16's and 15's
1 raptor took out 4 16's without ever being discovered and 2 Raptors took out 4 16's and 4 15's
and again the Raptors were never seen. Was history channel i think. they interviewed the pilots and the 15 and 16 pilots said it was very frustrating and one of the Raptor pilots said it was so easy, it was like clubbing baby seals.
Makes ya wonder

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Newbie Joined: Jul 14, 2006 Posts: 18 Status: Offline

A raptor and a viper is a visual guns only fight from a neutral starting position should have the raptor winning everytime. If the viper starts behind the raptor, flies correctly, he can gun the raptor. If the viper gets with in 1000 feet vertically, he will lose.

Runningman wrote:

The F-16s don't stand a chance even with awacs support. The raptor doesn't even need its radar to shoot a missile. The ALR-94 can plot the positions of -16s with their own radar emissions. The only way the f-16s can survive is if they keep their radars turned off.

Also, are we talking about a long range engagement or closer??

Could you please provide links about the ALR-94?? It is very interesting.

When I was at Red Flag we sent up 8 F-16CJ's againts 2 F-22's just after the 22's mastered 2v16 (F-15C's). Yeah...pretty much got owned. Although one pilot did manage to get within visual range of a raptor but shortly there after cought an AIM-9 up his tailpipe. I would imagine that if there were enough engagements a 16 may have it's day, but lets be serious, you only get one engagement in real life.

There is an absolutely great piece or posting by 'Vprwzl' (posted Apr 17, 2005), a Viper pilot of his experience against F-22's. It is about a third of the way down the page in the F-22A Raptor section, the URL is;
http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... bc383fa95f

He also posted a second time in response to some comments.

There is an article in Codeone about an RAF exchange F-15 pilot discussing the frustration of trying to shoot down a F-22 even when you do have a visual sighting of the F-22. The article is, "Raptors wield 'unfair' advantage at Red Flag." The three short paragraphs under the subtitle, "INVISIBILITY - EVEN WITH EYES ON." The URL is;
http://www.acc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123041831

The Discovery Channel did a program on the F-22 where several F-22 pilots and non-F-22 pilots discuss encounters where the F-22 is outnumbered 4:1 or 5:1. In one exercise Paul Metz is flying with four other F-15C's against one F-22. Even knowing what the F-22 is capable of and trying to counter that he died just like his flight mates and none ever saw their killer, the F-22!

One must also remember that flying WVR against an F-22 does not mean the F-22 is going to come down and use his guns against all four F-16's simultaneously. There are times it can be seen but, you still can't target it because of its advance technology.

Adrian

Combat Aircraft, 2007, May

Raptor Flag, report by Maj Lawrence Spinetta, USAF

1. Thrust of F119-PW100 today: 39,000 Ib class.

2. Supercruise speed of Raptor: 1.72 Mach.

3. Kill record of 27th FS F-22A in Northern Edge Exercise, 2006: 241-to-2

4. Exchange ratio of 94th FS F-22A in Red Flag Exercise, 2007: 36 : 1 (The Red force used "Unlimited Fighter Works", some Raptors were killed after they had run out of their missiles).

5. During the exercise, a F-22A was once encountered with three F-16 in WVR. After the former had killed two of the laters, the Raptor and the 3rd F-16 killed each other in a mutual kill.

Newbie Joined: Apr 05, 2007 Posts: 2 Status: Offline

Hey guys I have a question regarding capabilities of the F-22

I know the AIM-120 is fire and forget, but with the F-22s fire control, can it

launch multiple amraams at once or does the pilot have to lock then launch

repeatedly but does not need to keep the targets in painted forward HUD

aspect.?

Night wrote:

Could you please provide links about the ALR-94?? It is very interesting.

An article from the Journal of Electronic Defense (07/00) By Bill Sweetman
A good article about the F-22 with a good deal of information on the ALR-94. The most complex equipment piece on the F-22!
URL -http://bbs.xilu.com/cgi-bin/bbs/view?forum=aerofield&message=20556

Adrian

Enthusiast Joined: Jun 09, 2007 Posts: 25 Status: Offline

IF F-22 GETS STEALTHY,WILL THE 16s BE ABLE TO SHOOT TO AIM-120s..NO INDICATION ON RADAR ,NO LOCK AND HENCE NO FIRE,
I THINK WITH OUT BEING STEALTHY F-22 WILL BE TAKEN OUT...(I AM A NEWBIE PLS DON`T MIND IF I`M WRONG)

even if you removed all stealth the F-22 can use superior speed and altitude to gain a range advantage over the F-16 and then disengage to remain out of range for the F-16.

What kind of GCI support does each side have? The answer to that question would go along way towards desiging the tactics each would use.
If the F-16 pilots had good GCI support and the raptors didn't then the F-16s would win. If it's reversed then the raptors would win.
Two thing's to remember: every time you turn on your radar you are giving your position away and EVERY radar can be spoofed into giving bad info.

falcon_sgd, you pretty much have a point. That for firing a radar controlled missiles, a radar lock-is required. Aircraft with an IRST or optical detection system 'might' be able to lock-on to the F-22 but, it would have to get close. First, the F-22's IR signature is much smaller than most aircraft. Second, the F-22 maintaining an altitude advantage greatly decreases the range of an opponents IR missile.

danhutmacher GCI against the F-22, how does GCI vector an interceptor or SAM to something it can't detect? Currently, the LPI radars are not 'as detectable' as the non-LPI radars. The least detectable is the APG-77 radar in existence. (Each pulse is a different frequency across several frequency bands and at a different power level, so the transmission appears as random noise.) When it locks up a target, the target's RWR is not able to alert it that it has been locked-up! A victim's first awareness that it is under attack is when the Slammer Missile turns on its terminal guidance radar.

Adrian

Enthusiast Joined: Jun 09, 2007 Posts: 25 Status: Offline

thx for briefing!
i want to ask a question...if the 4 F-16s in ladder formation in just 100m distance , will the F-22`s radar be able to lock all four of them at the same time,addionally if the vipers have same speed and same y-axis value...
PLEASE EXPLAIN

currently there are ground radars that could detect the f-22 ...
long-wave radars like p-18 for example
u just need a cohesive network and a good GCI command.

Enthusiast Joined: Jun 09, 2007 Posts: 25 Status: Offline

ground radars may track F-22 but they can`t help its fighters in the sky very much ..i also suspect that ground radars can track STEALTHY F-22.the fighters will be told that F-22 is at that angle and that distance and mean while F-22 WOULD have fired its AMRAMS..

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