Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

craptorfan wrote:

I simply don't understand why anyone would still want the F-22. Robert Gates has faced tremendous pressure from the military industrial complex and their puppets in Congress to proceed with the production of this flawed fighter. Yet Gates still decided to cancel it. What does that tell you? My interpretation - the F-22's design flaws and maintenance nightmares are far worse than what the informed officials are willing to let on in public. In other words, the F-22 is a failed project. Why are the fan boys still waving Lockheed Martin's fraudulent sales brochure, and daydreaming about a restart of the assembly line? Are you suggesting that all those news reports on Raptor's problems are lies? The US government is already in the process of defaulting on its debts through massive inflation. Perhaps it's US turn to start stealing technological secrets from the Russians and the Chinese. They seem to have worked out a real thing, unlike the 180+ ultra-expensive pieces of junk that will probably never see a real combat mission.

Wow. You're thoroughly terrified they're going to build even more of them and render your country's air force completely irrelevant, aren't you? How many PLAAF/Rachel Mad-Cow talking points can you fit in your first post? Rolling Eyes

Don't worry, sadly there's little to no realistic chance we'll ever make more F-22s. Once the F-35s are in full production we won't even need to make more F-22s to render your air force irrelevant. It's more than adequate for that. Plus it's a better bomber than the F-22 as well. LMAO

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You should have seen the entirety of his "first" post. Oh wait, that's why I edited it to spare others of the off-topic semi-rant he made. What remains is his "opinion".

Way to go on your first post "craptorfan". Rolling Eyes

river_otter wrote:

Wow. You're thoroughly terrified they're going to build even more of them and render your country's air force completely irrelevant, aren't you? How many PLAAF/Rachel Mad-Cow talking points can you fit in your first post? Rolling Eyes

Don't worry, sadly there's little to no realistic chance we'll ever make more F-22s. Once the F-35s are in full production we won't even need to make more F-22s to render your air force irrelevant. It's more than adequate for that. Plus it's a better bomber than the F-22 as well. LMAO

I'm curious - are you a LMT employee deeply worried about your job or just a devastated craptor fan boy daydreaming about the F-35, a far worse turkey than the craptor. The Russians and the Chinese don't even give a damn about the craptor. You think they would take the craptor-lite seriously? Laughing

Rachel Maddow has more credibility and a bigger brain than any craptor / craptor-lite fan boy. Don't be surprised to see the craptor-lite go the way of the craptor in a year or two.

Why do you like turkeys so much?

Our Raptors are expensive because they are revolutionary. We spent years on R&D for them. Besides, who's to say the Russians and Chinese aren't breaking the banks just for something half as good?

craptorfan wrote:

I'm curious - are you a LMT employee deeply worried about your job or just a devastated craptor fan boy daydreaming about the F-35, a far worse turkey than the craptor. The Russians and the Chinese don't even give a damn about the craptor. You think they would take the craptor-lite seriously? Laughing

Source please. Instead of spouting off your opinion, how about provide some supporting links.

Quote:

Rachel Maddow has more credibility and a bigger brain than any craptor / craptor-lite fan boy. Don't be surprised to see the craptor-lite go the way of the craptor in a year or two.

Why do you like turkeys so much?

Maddow has zero credibility, as does anyone using junior high level terms.

tacf-x wrote:

Our Raptors are expensive because they are revolutionary. We spent years on R&D for them. Besides, who's to say the Russians and Chinese aren't breaking the banks just for something half as good?

the Craptors are expensive because crooks in the blood-sucking military industrial complex know that they can sell a pile of junks to the incompetent US government at exorbitant prices and easily get away with it. They control the corrupt hair-brained congress. They control most of the mainstream media (propaganda apparatus). They know that the average American is too ignorant, too uneducated, too preoccupied with entertainment to care about how his tax dollars are being spent or stolen. And they know that guys in the military, like Craptor fan boys, are even dumber than the average American.

There is a reason why spending disasters like the Craptor haven't happened in Australia, Canada, France and Germany. The people are a lot smarter.

The Russians have requested a fly-off / dogfight between the Craptor and the Su-35. The Americans have refused. I wonder why. Laughing

How about you educate yourself better on the Raptor? Everything about it is a step up from the previous generation. Newer materials used in the engines improve TBO, operating temperatures, efficiency, thrust output, etc. Raptors have new avionics suites that are more sensitive and sophisticated than anything before it. It has a RAM coating that is cheaper and easier to maintain than the B-2's.

HOW IS IT A PILE OF JUNK? Is it because of the OBOGS? Why don't you look at the issues with the longerons the F-15s faced? What about the B-1? Everything that is revolutionary has its bugs to be fixed.

Also, care to explain why the unit price of a Eurofighter isn't so cheap either? How about giving some sources to back up your ridiculous claims?

Here's something to chew on. Eventually the F-22 and F-35 will participate in Red Flag exercises (in addition to others) and eventually the US will get a new president and a shift in congress (hopefully less greedy socialists). If there is a massive disparity between the F-22 and F-35 in the exercises, I'm curious if that would lend more support to reopening the F-22 assembly line. A new congress and administration might take note. By this time we might be COMPLETELY out of Iraq and Afghanistan and a better handle on the budget. What if the F-35 doesn't do as well as planned against guests at Red Flag, like Rafales, Typhoons and Flankers?

discofishing wrote:

Here's something to chew on. Eventually the F-22 and F-35 will participate in Red Flag exercises (in addition to others) and eventually the US will get a new president and a shift in congress (hopefully less greedy socialists). If there is a massive disparity between the F-22 and F-35 in the exercises, I'm curious if that would lend more support to reopening the F-22 assembly line. A new congress and administration might take note. By this time we might be COMPLETELY out of Iraq and Afghanistan and a better handle on the budget. What if the F-35 doesn't do as well as planned against guests at Red Flag, like Rafales, Typhoons and Flankers?

Then I will be one happy camper, because we'll have nixed the two primary unproductive leeches on the defense budget; the pointless wars in the ME. I'm all for more Raptors!!

REDFLAG 2018 or whichever it is should be very interesting. I hope that there are some videos/recaps made available, since that would be a *great* way to see firsthand how everything does.

My only F-35 experience is playing a semi-sim on my XBOX. It's a slow turkey, but the sensor fusion makes up for that IMO. There's a lot less craning your head around WVR and maneuvering to get the bandit in your -120C cone BVR. I like it, but the payload is lacking compared to my trusty Beagle.

tacf-x wrote:

How about you educate yourself better on the Raptor? Everything about it is a step up from the previous generation. Newer materials used in the engines improve TBO, operating temperatures, efficiency, thrust output, etc. Raptors have new avionics suites that are more sensitive and sophisticated than anything before it. It has a RAM coating that is cheaper and easier to maintain than the B-2's.

HOW IS IT A PILE OF JUNK? Is it because of the OBOGS? Why don't you look at the issues with the longerons the F-15s faced? What about the B-1? Everything that is revolutionary has its bugs to be fixed.

Also, care to explain why the unit price of a Eurofighter isn't so cheap either? How about giving some sources to back up your ridiculous claims?

You are still waving LMT's sales brochure. You are repeating the sales pitch, and not talking about the actual aircraft. Obviously you aren't heeding your own advice. You talk about the new engine, but not the cracks. You talk about the RAM coating and how cheap it is, even though it's the coating that's causing much of the high maintenance cost and time, and its vulnerability to rain and high speed flying that's posing risks to the engines. You take everything on LMT's sales brochure at face value, despite evidence to the contrary. Didn't the Eurofighter outmaneuvered the Craptor in an encounter a while back?

It's pretty much the same script as the F-15s, the so-called "Best fighters in the world", until actual fly offs with the Flankers took place in 1992. Since then the F-15s have been beaten in well over 90% of combat exercises. Even the infamously incompetent Indian Air Force managed to score victories against the US F-15 squads with their old Flankers.

In actual battles like the Korean War and the Vietnam War, the US lost more aircraft than China and Russia (or the USSR) combined. Ever heard of the F-105? Almost the entire fleet got destroyed in the Vietnam War. I guess it's F-35's turn now. Laughing

Posting while tripping is probably not a good idea Laughing

Also, I tend to value the F-15's combat performance over alleged flyoffs and the word of an internet poster.

Having spent the last few weeks in Tyndall, in my opinion, the Raptor is ahead of anything in the flight performance category. It's light years ahead in power and agility compared to the baby hornet, F-15 and F-16. If the Raptor was exportable, there are plenty of other nations who would buy it, Israel, Japan, Australia, maybe Canada just to name a few.

tacf-x wrote:

I'm with discofishing. Stop feeding the troll.

I know, I know... Rule #1, don't post responses to stupidity in the middle of the night. Especially one this uninformed. Rule #2, by the time it's that late and you can't sleep, you're too tired to remember rule #1.

Still, it'll be fun to see the Raptors in a Red Flag some day, with their Luneberg lenses attached, and the most classified LPI modes of the APG-77 locked off, with ROEs that force a dogfight when the Raptor would actually just splash the target unseen from tens of miles away. And watch them still beat all comers. And then watch the Lightnings take out everything except the Raptors.

If we get a competent man in the White House, Raptor exports to all or some of those nations would make a lot of sense. Imagine an RAAF c. 2025 with 12 Growlers, 60 Raptors with a stealthy ASM integrated, Wedgetails and MRTTs. That's a force that simply can't be touched by anything in the region, including F-35s. The Raptor's high speed and altitude make it ideal for wide-area operations that Canada and Oz's very nature make necessary. Export Raptors in the future are not something to discount, especially if the JSF becomes a low-production aircraft.

pushoksti wrote:

Having spent the last few weeks in Tyndall, in my opinion, the Raptor is ahead of anything in the flight performance category. It's light years ahead in power and agility compared to the baby hornet, F-15 and F-16. If the Raptor was exportable, there are plenty of other nations who would buy it, Israel, Japan, Australia, maybe Canada just to name a few.

If the fiscally insane and morally bankrupt US government wouldn't buy the ultra-expensive semi-flying piece of junk, why would saner, less corrupt governments in Israel, Australia, Canada etc want to buy the Craptor?

By the way, Israel has more influence over the US government than all the American voters combined!!! If Israel need those junks, it will make Americans pay for them, like it has done with most other military hardware. You really need to lay off the pipe dream about the Craptor and start getting a handle on the filthy reality of American politics.

Besides, the Craptor isn't exportable because doing so will reveal the dirty secrets of the virtually useless Craptors, enabling the Russians and the Chinese to counter it effectively at even lower cost. Frankly, they really don't need to do much given Craptor's laughable record - one major technical failure every 1.7 hours. I can almost hear them laughing at Craptor's clownish brief "deployment" to the Pacific.

I suspect that the Chinese was trying to push Roberts Gates to restart the F-22 with a blatantly public "initial test flight" of the J-20. They were probably disappointed at the fact that some officials in the US had wised up to the reality that going forward with the Craptor would be throwing good money after bad.

Looks like this forum is filled with uninformed, war-mongering amateurs. Laughing

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 Line can be restarted for $200M?