Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Weapons included as Bolsøy mentions. Could this mean development of the JSM, budgeted with in the F35 budget?

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loke wrote:

You cannot compare different deals like that; first, the offer to Holland was some years ago; inflation by itself increases the costs. Second, you have to look at what is included in each deal. Unless you know the details of that, you cannot compare.

Since this is the F-35 forum; 48 Norwegian F-35 was said to cost 18 billion NOK (2008) (roughly 3 billion USD).

However now it's said that the price for the Norwegian F-35 is not 3 billion USD but 10 billion USD!

This increase is due to: real increase in the cost of the F-35; inflation; and other "technical" adjustments (i.e. exchange rate).

Using your simplified way of thinking, the F-35 project looks doomed with such huge increase in costs... a factor of more than 3! Wink

loke,

As I'm sure you are aware, the $3 bn. (NOK18 bn.) figure represents only the (then) pr. plane unit cost. The new $10 bn. figure, however, is the total acquisition cost for the programme including a 30-year support- and logistics deal, weapons, spares, equipment etc.

As you mention it also accounts for technical economical ajustments. This includes inflation and new currency rates, but is chiefly due to a conversion from real to nominal dollars as the programme has transversed from a fighter competition into an aquisition programme which requires future budgetary planning.

And as you are probably also aware, the recent reports by the Aftenposten newspaper alleging a 90 bn. NOK life-cycle cost overrun was simply a confusion of these terms -- which is all too often the case with this newspaper.

B. Bolsøy
Oslo

energo wrote:

loke wrote:

You cannot compare different deals like that; first, the offer to Holland was some years ago; inflation by itself increases the costs. Second, you have to look at what is included in each deal. Unless you know the details of that, you cannot compare.

Since this is the F-35 forum; 48 Norwegian F-35 was said to cost 18 billion NOK (2008) (roughly 3 billion USD).

However now it's said that the price for the Norwegian F-35 is not 3 billion USD but 10 billion USD!

This increase is due to: real increase in the cost of the F-35; inflation; and other "technical" adjustments (i.e. exchange rate).

Using your simplified way of thinking, the F-35 project looks doomed with such huge increase in costs... a factor of more than 3! Wink

loke,

As I'm sure you are aware, the $3 bn. (NOK18 bn.) figure represents only the (then) pr. plane unit cost. The new $10 bn. figure, however, is the total acquisition cost for the programme including a 30-year support- and logistics deal, weapons, spares, equipment etc.

As you mention it also accounts for technical economical ajustments. This includes inflation and new currency rates, but is chiefly due to a conversion from real to nominal dollars as the programme has transversed from a fighter competition into an aquisition programme which requires future budgetary planning.

And as you are probably also aware, the recent reports by the Aftenposten newspaper alleging a 90 bn. NOK life-cycle cost overrun was simply a confusion of these terms -- which is all too often the case with this newspaper.

B. Bolsøy
Oslo

Exactly, and that proves my point that comparing numbers without going into all the details makes the comparisons meaningless... Wink

m: Comparing NG to F-35 is also meaningless... Both A/C are rather unique and operate in completely different markets. They are not competitors (although Saab tried, rather optimistically, once).

southernphantom wrote:

As for the F-35 vs. the F-22, it doesn't have to turn to fire *what* again?? The only LOAL/OTS tests I've read about have been with the F/A-18A in RAAF service. In light of the serious HMD problems the JSF is having, it will probably be a while before it can actually perform these launches. I also fail to see much utility in this for the F-22 when the Raptor will be facing a non-maneuvering target with no idea it's there, let alone in weapons range. I do support JHMCS integration on the Raptor if its pilot decides to enter a knife fight, but there's been some whining about 'cockpit mapping issues'.

The JSF's helmet issue won't limit its ability to engage targets, within the DAS's spherical coverage. The pilot can still designate any target being tracked, as that's all done automatically. As for the tests, you need only look for video of AIM-9X testing. You'll find more clips than just the RAAF Hornets.

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Is the F-35 really that bad?