Forum: Program and politics

Quote:

F-35 Will 'Revolutionize' Combat Power In The Pacific
By Robbin Laird

Published: December 22, 2011

Robbin Laird, a member of the AOL Board of Contributors and vocal F-35 proponent, outlines why Japan's decision to purchase the Joint Strike Fighter will redefine the U.S. and its allies fly and fight in the Pacific

The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will be the cornerstone of Japanese defense. The Japanese know something about technology. And as a leader in technology worldwide, the Japanese decision validates the cutting edge role of the F-35.

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Before the JSF, military leaders would have to tack on additional systems to legacy aircraft to provide new capabilities. The pilot would be forced to manage each new system. The F-35's five major combat systems are already integrated and interact with each other to provide capabilities. The functional capabilities that emerge from that interaction are done by the machine and are not simply correlated with a single system.

[...]

The F-35 is also perfectly equipped to integrate with other weapon platforms, like the Navy's Aegis ballistic missile system.

[...]

Upcoming Aegis tests will support a launch and engage-on-remote concept linking the Aegis ship to remote sensor data, increasing the coverage area and responsiveness. Once this capability is fully developed, the SM-3 missile used on board Aegis -- no longer constrained by the range the system's radar to detect an incoming missile -- can be launched sooner and therefore fly farther to defeat the threat. Imagine this capability linked to an F-35, which can see more than 800 miles throughout a 360-degree approach. Needless to say, U.S. allies are excited about the linkage prospects and the joint evolution of these two highly upgradeable weapon systems.

[...]

There is a high probability that the strategic quadrangle of South Korea, Singapore, Australia and Japan will all field the F-35 and Aegis missile system. This not only allows significant commonality among the allies, but provides a solid foundation for U.S. forces to work with regional allies and reduce the risks to American forward deployed forces.

[...]

US and allied forces will have the perfect aircraft in the F-35 to play both offensive and defense when hypersonic Cruise Missiles become a combat reality. The C4ISR-D "Z-axis" in the cockpit can lead the way in developing a Pacific "honeycomb" ISR Grid to handle the hyper-sonic Cruise Missile threat.

[...]

If the F-35 did not exist with it's revolutionary "Z-axis" 360 umbrella -it would have to be invented. Northern Edge validated that the US has developed a flying combat system that is world class and unique-a Fighter/Attack aircraft with EW/"tron" warfare capability with both AA and AG kinetic weapons in the bay.
In short, the acquisition of the F-35 by the Japanese is an important step in re-building Pacific defense capabilities. The F-35 will shape a scalable force that will participate in executing an economy of force strategy.

Source: http://defense.aol.com/2011/12/22/f-35- ... e-pacific/

Aegis linked to the "spear tips" F-35s and vice versa F-35s packing SM-3s, each is very "eye opening" WOW Shocked

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LINK provided here also: Japan judged F-35 to have best performance

http://www.f-16.net/index.php?name=PNph ... ird#211146

neptune wrote:

Aegis linked to the "spear tips" F-35s and vice versa F-35s packing SM-3s, each is very "eye opening" WOW Shocked

F-35 integartion with AEGIS is to extend SA capabilities and not as a shooter. Helping intercept BMs with SM3s is fine if it can detect threats beyond the range of AEGIS radar coverage.. given a ballistic trajectory though, I believe the threat will be detected by ship radar well beyond the range of the SM3. AEGIS radar range is classified so this is just my opinion.
Where I see the F-35 playing a crucial role is in enabling SM6 launches vs low-flying threat aircraft and AShM that are concealed by the radar horizon until they are uncomfortably close to their target. A F-35 flying picket can detect these low-flying threats and cue SM6s in launch-on-remote mode, exploiting the SM6 maximum range to engage the threat more than 300Km away.

This is sounding very much video-gamish for some reason. Allowing the F-35J (or C, if it's defending a CVBG) to act as a remote target acquisition platform for a SPY-1A+ SM-3/SM-6 is going to be great, because it allows the F-35 to operate at or near its full performance (Few self-carried weapons) and take advantage of its long possible endurance, thanks to the fact that its 'fangs' are sitting on an Aegis destroyer.

It's not really a stretch, but the natural progression of sensor integration. Currently, the F-35 can launch weapons based on targeting from any of it's sensors, other flight member sensors, or any other off-board sensors. The above article just looks at this tech in reverse, eg the F-35 providing data to the ship for a weapon launch.

Given that the latest AMRAAM can receive post-launch updates from sources that ARE NOT the launching platform, we could soon see SAMs being guided and updated from forward F-35s.

Not only with aegis systems, also European frigates, as well as a Korean ship, with Smart L radars.
Or the derivate Thales/BAE S1850.
2006: Us test Hawai, with also a Smart L radar (Dutch Navy frigate)
http://www.thales-nederland.nl/nl/news/ ... 2006.shtml

The Smart L is expected to be upgraded, in the (near) future, having a range of 2000 km (High flying objects, specifically ballistic missiles)
Aegis and Smart L each have their own specific advantages, combined it's a extremely good combination. Especially when also F35's are involved as detecting system, or loaded with weapons against ballistic missiles.

A new Smart L upgrade will be ready in 2017 (supposed 800 km). First ships getting the upgraded radar will be the Dutch LCF frigates.
The Dutch navy will function as lead customer. Expected the German and Danish navy will follow, as well as the UK is interested in.
These frigates will function as a part of the Aegis system as well. Dutch LCF's fully embedded. Suppose the other European frigates as well, but have no specific information "fully"or partial" embedded?

May be not known, but the US, at the start of the F35 project, at that moment was not interested in a F35 capacity cooperating with the Aegis system as it will function now.
It's not a question of simply linking, but the F35 will function as a part of a complete anti ballistic system.

The Dutch wanted the F35 as a system with in their LCF frigate antiballistic system, cooperating F35 with (LCF) Smart L system, as well as with Patriotsystem (and Nasams) as one complete system.
Later on, also the US became convinced the F35 could be very useful within the Aegis system.

Personal view, I do think it was not just a military reason for the Dutch having the F35 in this role. A combination of F35 and Smart L radar promotes the radar, as well as promotes the F35.
As well as it promotes also the Aegis system. Both compete, but mainly each have their own market. Although competing, there is also a lot of cooperation.

In the Netherlands a lot seem not aware, especially anti F35, joining the F35 project was not only important for the aviation industry, but also important for the Thales navy radar
(as a combination with the F35 against also ballistic missiles)

Jane`s mentions a Smart L radar upgrade to 2000 km.
Doubt this is true? Do not follow this subject, but my impression was a upgrade from ±480 km to 800 km and in the near future to 2000 km.

Quote: The Smart-L air search radars in the Royal Netherlands Navy's De Zeven Provinciën-class frigates are to be upgraded with an extended long-range (ELR) mode, the
Dutch Ministry of Defence (MoD) announced on 26 September.

Costing a projected EUR250 million (USD340 million), the technology insertion will allow the four frigates to detect and track ballistic missiles up to an estimated range of 2,000 km.
http://www.janes.com/products/janes/def ... 1065930398

Last edited by popcorn on Dec 25, 2011 - 01:57 AM; edited 1 time in total

southernphantom wrote:

This is sounding very much video-gamish for some reason. Allowing the F-35J (or C, if it's defending a CVBG) to act as a remote target acquisition platform for a SPY-1A+ SM-3/SM-6 is going to be great, because it allows the F-35 to operate at or near its full performance (Few self-carried weapons) and take advantage of its long possible endurance, thanks to the fact that its 'fangs' are sitting on an Aegis destroyer.

It goes without saying that the B jet has exactly the same capabilities which is going to be extremely useful to operators without a CSG and its E-2 to fall back on. This is a dimension often overlooked in the ARG discussion. The B, teamed with AEGIS ships and VLS-equipped subs, will provide a formidable defensive and offensive punch. Even a relatively limited number of Bs can have a major multiplier effect on overall effectiveness in the new paradigm. No platform fights alone and the F-35 is the glue making this synergy possible, creating an impact far beyond what a legacy platform capable of only kinetic warfare can provide.

popcorn wrote:

southernphantom wrote:

This is sounding very much video-gamish for some reason. Allowing the F-35J (or C, if it's defending a CVBG) to act as a remote target acquisition platform for a SPY-1A+ SM-3/SM-6 is going to be great, because it allows the F-35 to operate at or near its full performance (Few self-carried weapons) and take advantage of its long possible endurance, thanks to the fact that its 'fangs' are sitting on an Aegis destroyer.

It goes without saying that the B jet has exactly the same capabilities which is going to be extremely useful to operators without a CSG and its E-2 to fall back on. This is a dimension often overlooked in the ARG discussion. It's also true for allies like Italy and others who may now be encouraged to pursue a more aggressive ship-based aviation capability.

The B, teamed with AEGIS or AEGIS-type ships and VLS-equipped subs, will provide a formidable defensive and offensive punch. Even a relatively limited number of Bs can have a major multiplier effect on overall effectiveness in the new paradigm. No platform fights alone and the F-35 is the glue making this synergy possible, creating an impact far beyond what a legacy platform capable of only kinetic warfare can provide.

Last edited by popcorn on Dec 25, 2011 - 05:57 PM; edited 1 time in total

southernphantom wrote:

This is sounding very much video-gamish for some reason. Allowing the F-35J (or C, if it's defending a CVBG) to act as a remote target acquisition platform for a SPY-1A+ SM-3/SM-6 is going to be great, because it allows the F-35 to operate at or near its full performance (Few self-carried weapons) and take advantage of its long possible endurance, thanks to the fact that its 'fangs' are sitting on an Aegis destroyer.

-double post-

The Navy is funding the further development of their Cooperative Engagement Capability with a newer program called Naval Integrated Fire Control - Counter Air (NIFC-CA). From the Navy FY 2012 budget request:

"Naval Integrated Fire Control - Counter Air (NIFC-CA) Systems Engineering Integration and Test (SEI&T) project is a systems engineering effort to extend the Naval Theater Air and Missile Defense battlespace out to the maximum kinematic range of our weapons. This includes targets beyond the detection range of the shooter, including Engage On Remote (EoR) and Over the Horizon (OTH) targets. The NIFC-CA project exploits capabilities inherent in existing systems, optimizes current and emerging technologies in component system upgrades, integrates them together, performs kill chain tests, forming an interoperable System of Systems (SoS) to maximize future air defense capabilities. NIFC-CA consists of three kill chains called From the Air (FTA), From the Sea (FTS), and From the Land (FTL). As directed by OPNAV, the project is focused on SEI&T efforts to integrate the From The Sea (FTS) kill chain consisting of the E-2D Advanced Hawkeye, Cooperative Engagement Capability (CEC), AEGIS, and SM-6 missile. This PE will support efforts including system definition and architecture development, performance prediction, performance assessment, system test and risk reduction efforts, system analysis, modeling and simulation, and capability demonstrations for the FTS kill chain. The project also facilitates the development of the concept of operations with the warfighter to maximize effectiveness when deployed with the Fleet. This PE also includes SEI&T activities to integrate the US Army's Joint Land Attack Cruise Missile Defense Elevated Netted Sensor (JLENS) into the FTS kill chain as an elevated sensor and conduct a joint demonstration of that capability when the Navy systems are mature."

Curiously, the proposed "AEGIS" capabilities of F-35B/C is not mentioned.

maus92 said above: "....Curiously, the proposed "AEGIS" capabilities of F-35B/C is not mentioned." You oughtta take that up with Laird and others at SLDinfo. Ask for a reply to your query. Thanks.

spazsinbad wrote:

maus92 said above: "....Curiously, the proposed "AEGIS" capabilities of F-35B/C is not mentioned." You oughtta take that up with Laird and others at SLDinfo. Ask for a reply to your query. Thanks.

No need to do that, thank you. I'm sure Mr. Laird knows the E-2 is the airborne sensor platform of choice for the Navy, and it makes sense. The E-2 has superior endurance and a much more powerful radar and ESM package than the F-35, and the onboard personnel to make the workload of managing a complex battlespace more practical.

So for countries without an E-2 and the USMC - what do they do? I guess they pursue the ideas outlined in the SLDinfo article.

Last edited by maus92 on Dec 26, 2011 - 12:10 AM; edited 1 time in total

spazsinbad wrote:

So for countries without an E-2 and the USMC - what do they do? I guess they pursue the ideas outlined in the SLDinfo article.

So far in the Pacific Rim, AEGIS equips (or will equip) the USN, the Japanese, the South Korean, and the Australian navies. The E-2 is in service with the Japanese and Wedgetail has provisions for CEC. The Marines don't operate their own surface combatants (yet.)

Forum: Program and politics

Wow and How!; Japan F-35