Forum: F-35 Lightning II

http://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/ ... spx?ID=611

Analyst: Without F-35B, Marine Corps’ Brand Would Be Weakened
by Sandra Erwin

Twice a month, the commandant of the Marine Corps confers with the upper management of the F-35B Joint Strike Fighter program. No detail about this program is too small for Gen. James Amos, said his deputy Gen. Joseph Dunford.

Tactical aviation is the Marine Corps’ top modernization priority, Dunford said Dec. 7. “We haven’t bought new airplanes in a decade,” he said......

“Losing the F-35B would really collapse the entire structure of the Marine Corps,” said Thomas Donnelly, a defense and security analyst at the neoconservative American Enterprise Institute.

The bottom line is that without F-35B, Marine aviation operations would be reduced to just helicopters. ......

Marines should go even further in their advocacy of F-35B and make a case that Marine aviation can at times be more valuable than Navy carrier-based aviation, said Donnelly. “A large-deck amphibious ship with 30 stealthy jump jets may be more productive and capable in some cases (CAS) than a large-deck Navy aircraft carrier with 60 F/A-18s,” he said. “That’s something that we should think about.”.....

The recent air war over Libya offered Marines the chance to show the prowess of their AV-8B Harrier jump jets, which the F-35B is scheduled to replace over the next decade. In NATO’s close-air support missions, the Harrier competed with the Air Force’s A-10 attack aircraft, according an industry source. Air Force officials, this source said, in fact were questioning why Harriers were assigned CAS missions over Libya when, they argued, the A-10 arguably might have been a better choice.

Dunford, speaking at the CSIS forum, characterized tactical aviation as one of the top three items on the Marine Corps’ equipment wish list, along with “ship to shore” and ground tactical vehicles. Asked whether he was referring specifically to the F-35B, Dunford said the priority is aviation “writ large,” rather than a particular program.

A Marine Corps spokesman noted that, besides the F-35B, the rest of the service’s aviation efforts focus on rotary-wing aircraft, refueling tankers and drones..... ....

Congressional critics ... should cancel it, continue to buy F/A-18E/F Super Hornets, and in the process save $18 billion through 2021. “The F/A-18 Super Hornet provides service-specific capabilities for the Navy and Marine Corps,” Coburn wrote in his deficit-reduction proposal. “However, this option would not replace the AV-8 Harriers of the Marine Corps. This option assumes Marine ground forces would not enter an area with contested airspace without the support of an aircraft carrier for close-air support.”

Comment: As the Corp replaces the Harrier, the Tac Air capability of the "Bee" is being evolved with it's new systems talents. After the Navy carrier sails away, the Gator navy can maintain air superiority, CAS and many new capabilites with just this one a/c.
Wink

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"Marines should go even further in their advocacy of F-35B and make a case that Marine aviation can at times be more valuable than Navy carrier-based aviation, said Donnelly. “A large-deck amphibious ship with 30 stealthy jump jets may be more productive and capable in some cases (CAS) than a large-deck Navy aircraft carrier with 60 F/A-18s,” he said. “That’s something that we should think about.”..... "

OK, thought about it. LHA can't support 30 F-35's.

When people sound this hysterical they're making a political statement and are often best ignored. The USMC is about it's Marines not a piece of kit. Marine aviation will probably be well served by the F-35B but equating not getting the B with the end of Marine aviation is simply ridiculous. If the sky really did fall in and the B was canceled they'd SLEP some of their current planes in combination with F/A-18E/F buys and/or another aircraft.

The MEU cycle is a complex dance. Taking an LHA out of the dance is rather problematic and it's just not going to happen very often to be all excited about.

maus92 wrote:

"Marines should go even further in their advocacy of F-35B and make a case that Marine aviation can at times be more valuable than Navy carrier-based aviation, said Donnelly. “A large-deck amphibious ship with 30 stealthy jump jets may be more productive and capable in some cases (CAS) than a large-deck Navy aircraft carrier with 60 F/A-18s,” he said. “That’s something that we should think about.”..... "

OK, thought about it. LHA can't support 30 F-35's.

Its possible if you kick all the ground Marines and the reinforced tilt-rotor squadron off the thing. Then what you got is a slow over sized CVE with undersized jet aviation support capabilities.

maus92 wrote:

"Marines should go even further in their advocacy of F-35B and make a case that Marine aviation can at times be more valuable than Navy carrier-based aviation, said Donnelly. “A large-deck amphibious ship with 30 stealthy jump jets may be more productive and capable in some cases (CAS) than a large-deck Navy aircraft carrier with 60 F/A-18s,” he said. “That’s something that we should think about.”..... "

OK, thought about it. LHA can't support 30 F-35's.

Will support 20 -- think again. Very valuable in any emerging Pacific strategy where geography amplifies the value of naval forces, distribution and numbers.

I thought 22 F-35Bs for AMERICA CLASS (max.total)?

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... -specs.htm

"Or a JSF platform to host 22 - F-35B STOVL aircraft"
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http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs/de ... 9244f65a0a

"...The nominal air combat element onboard one of these ships includes six F-35Bs.

That number can be increased to up to 22 F-35Bs by disembarking helicopters...."

And so your point is...?

What is my point? The number. QUE. Capice.

...which doesn't alter Mr Donnelly's fundamental thesis -- that F-35B on amphibs changes the equation. And, given the likelihood that America is a one-ship class, the preponderance of the type (large deck amphibs) will be LHD which, IIRC, will vary in capacity between 19 and 21. Thumb

The leathernecks are getting Cs anyway, it ain't the end of USMC aviation. That's just sensational reporting and we all know it.

quicksilver wrote:

maus92 wrote:

"Marines should go even further in their advocacy of F-35B and make a case that Marine aviation can at times be more valuable than Navy carrier-based aviation, said Donnelly. “A large-deck amphibious ship with 30 stealthy jump jets may be more productive and capable in some cases (CAS) than a large-deck Navy aircraft carrier with 60 F/A-18s,” he said. “That’s something that we should think about.”..... "

OK, thought about it. LHA can't support 30 F-35's.

Will support 20 -- think again. Very valuable in any emerging Pacific strategy where geography amplifies the value of naval forces, distribution and numbers.

More like 15-16 max, according to Capt. Manvel, an engineer who has years of operational experience and actually studies these things as a profession - unlike a politically motivated AEI thinktank analyst.

I guess Sweetman would like to be called a think tank. Global Security info here: http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/index.html Capt. Manvel is a name. Anything more?

spazsinbad wrote:

Capt. Manvel is a name. Anything more?

I found this: http://hamptonroads.com/2011/11/dont-cu ... rier-force
I also found this: http://dreager1.files.wordpress.com/201 ... 1cover.jpg
Don't know if they're the same person. Shocked

www.blogtalkradio.com/midrats/2011/12/0 ... e-carriers
An interview with Capt. Manvel.

maus92 wrote:

quicksilver wrote:

maus92 wrote:

"Marines should go even further in their advocacy of F-35B and make a case that Marine aviation can at times be more valuable than Navy carrier-based aviation, said Donnelly. “A large-deck amphibious ship with 30 stealthy jump jets may be more productive and capable in some cases (CAS) than a large-deck Navy aircraft carrier with 60 F/A-18s,” he said. “That’s something that we should think about.”..... "

OK, thought about it. LHA can't support 30 F-35's.

Will support 20 -- think again. Very valuable in any emerging Pacific strategy where geography amplifies the value of naval forces, distribution and numbers.

More like 15-16 max, according to Capt. Manvel, an engineer who has years of operational experience and actually studies these things as a profession - unlike a politically motivated AEI thinktank analyst.

Then he would be wrong in spite of his experience. LHD-1 will take 19. LHD-6 max is 21.

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

F-35B an Analysts viewpoint of Marine Corp Tactical Aviation