Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

I'm hearing that lockheed and the air force plan to save the F-22 tooling instead of destroy it. Is this true? Destroying the tooling would be a very very big mistake in my book.

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The decision to save all the tooling was made way back in July of 2010. Tooling is primarily for conducting a SLEP down the road although they could use it to restart the F-22 line like they have with other aircraft programs.

Before I left Marietta we were told that the tooling would be saved and that the production line would be mothballed for two years after it shutdown. Just in case. Myself, I'm hoping it will start back up. Want to return there.

railmonkey wrote:

Before I left Marietta we were told that the tooling would be saved and that the production line would be mothballed for two years after it shutdown. Just in case. Myself, I'm hoping it will start back up. Want to return there.

So you used to be a worker on the raptors assembly line? That's a job I'd like to have Smile

. The next best thing besides flying them. Also I do hope production is restarted as well. Thank you for clarifying this for me.

falcon17 wrote:

railmonkey wrote:

Before I left Marietta we were told that the tooling would be saved and that the production line would be mothballed for two years after it shutdown. Just in case. Myself, I'm hoping it will start back up. Want to return there.

So you used to be a worker on the raptors assembly line? That's a job I'd like to have Smile

. The next best thing besides flying them. Also I do hope production is restarted as well. Thank you for clarifying this for me.

In a way. Work for Pratt. We had a hanger to ourselves on the flightline side. LM actually installed the engines.

Ron

I just discovered that there is a new RCS proving facility about to be built at Hill AFB specifically for the F-22 (F-35 is secondary) .... what's that about? It won't even be finished before production wraps up and there's already one in Marietta. Little bit odd considering there's only about 20 or so F-22's still in assembly.

Could be a facility to check RCS after major work of repairs or modifications.

Maybe it went black, like... with a strike version to replace the F-117. Speculation is fun.

Pilotasso wrote:

Could be a facility to check RCS after major work of repairs or modifications.

No the RFI specifically says that it is for RCS testing immediately following assembly (implying F-22's will be built at Hill).

Quote:

Maybe it went black, like... with a strike version to replace the F-117. Speculation is fun.

Going "black" would solve a lot of problems if you ask me.

discofishing wrote:

Quote:

Maybe it went black, like... with a strike version to replace the F-117. Speculation is fun.

Going "black" would solve a lot of problems if you ask me.

I almost went on a rant about that in my previous post, so... here it is. In looking at various programs since the 1950s, it seems that the ones which garner the least amount of public attention seem to also be the ones most likely to come in on time and on budget (or at least something close to it), probably because they attract fewer cooks to spoil the broth as it were. This, of course, also includes the black programs.

Does anyone here honestly think that the SR-71, the F-117, or the B-2, would have ever made it into production under the scrutiny of grandstanding politicians, idiot reporters, and fanboys? Even programs that weren't secret seem to have done better when no one was paying attention. Of course, that was before the internet, when a couple of prototypes could crash without everyone wringing their hands.

I think that one of the main problems for the F-22 was publicity. The USAF couldn't resist using it as a recruitment gimmick, and LM couldn't resist using it for marketing. The high cost didn't help, but it was the publicity that made it into a lightning rod, subject to the latest political whim. Today, we're seeing the same thing with the F-35.

Honestly, I think things would be better off if everyone in the program would just shut their yaps, limiting their comments to, "the planes we have are getting old and will soon be outdated, so we're building new ones. If you don't like it, then remember that Mandarin is a category-5 language (the highest rating) in terms of difficulty for English speakers."

munny wrote:

Pilotasso wrote:

Could be a facility to check RCS after major work of repairs or modifications.

No the RFI specifically says that it is for RCS testing immediately following assembly (implying F-22's will be built at Hill).

That's interesting...and not fully surprising. There have been whispers of wing redesigns, and IIRC a few other funny things from Boeing. Either they're covertly developing their own 5-gen fighter, or the Raptor is being upgraded/built in secret.

Last edited by Prinz_Eugn on Dec 05, 2011 - 09:38 PM; edited 1 time in total

1st503rdsgt wrote:

I almost went on a rant about that in my previous post, so... here it is. In looking at various programs since the 1950s, it seems that the ones which garner the least amount of public attention seem to also be the ones most likely to come in on time and on budget (or at least something close to it), probably because they attract fewer cooks to spoil the broth as it were. This, of course, also includes the black programs.

Does anyone here honestly think that the SR-71, the F-117, or the B-2, would have ever made it into production under the scrutiny of grandstanding politicians, idiot reporters, and fanboys? Even programs that weren't secret seem to have done better when no one was paying attention. Of course, that was before the internet, when a couple of prototypes could crash without everyone wringing their hands.

I think that one of the main problems for the F-22 was publicity. The USAF couldn't resist using it as a recruitment gimmick, and LM couldn't resist using it for marketing. The high cost didn't help, but it was the publicity that made it into a lightning rod, subject to the latest political whim. Today, we're seeing the same thing with the F-35.

Honestly, I think things would be better off if everyone in the program would just shut their yaps, limiting their comments to, "the planes we have are getting old and will soon be outdated, so we're building new ones. If you don't like it, then remember that Mandarin is a category-5 language (the highest rating) in terms of difficulty for English speakers."

Just to be nitpicky, the B-2 was a largely public program, though the actual shape was classified for a long time. They had an official roll out and a public flight test program, unlike HAVE BLUE and OXCART.

Prinz_Eugn wrote:

Just to be nitpicky, the B-2 was a largely public program, though the actual shape was classified for a long time. They had an official roll out and a public flight test program, unlike HAVE BLUE and OXCART.

And it also suffered delays and budget bloating which resulted in a reduction in the number ordered. The guy in charge of Lockheed's Skunkworks at the time, Ben Rich, put most of the blame for that on government vultures hanging all over the engineers and getting in the way, and it wasn't even his company & staff to defend.

munny wrote:

Pilotasso wrote:

Could be a facility to check RCS after major work of repairs or modifications.

No the RFI specifically says that it is for RCS testing immediately following assembly (implying F-22's will be built at Hill).

Each F-35 built will have to have its RCS tested so that will be a busy facility in the future.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

F-22 tooling?