Forum: F-35 Lightning II

http://defensetech.org/2011/12/09/lockh ... -30-f-35s/

Lockheed Martin Corp., Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Co., Fort Worth, Texas, is being awarded a $4,011,919,310 fixed-price-incentive (firm target) (FPIF) modification to a previously awarded advance acquisition contract (N00019-10-C-0002). This modification provides for the manufacture and delivery of 30 Low Rate Initial Production Lot V F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) Aircraft for the U.S. Air Force (21 Conventional Take Off and Landing (CTOL) aircraft); the U.S. Navy (6 Carrier Variant (CV) aircraft) and the U.S. Marine Corps (3 Short Take Off and Vertical Landing (STOVL) aircraft).

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Does that total of approximately $126M/copy for each A variant include an engine?? Reason I ask is because of this wording which I don't fully understand, so if someone could help me out with a definition it'd be appreciated.

Quote:

this modification provides for associated ancillary mission equipment

hotrampphotography wrote:

Does that total of approximately $126M/copy for each A variant include an engine?? Reason I ask is because of this wording which I don't fully understand, so if someone could help me out with a definition it'd be appreciated.

Quote:

this modification provides for associated ancillary mission equipment

No, it does not include the engine. This contract is a modification to a previously let contract which funded long-lead items for the airframe. There will also be a separate contract to Pratt for the F135 powerplant. I'm not sure if lift fan systems are purchased through Pratt, or RR directly. I am also unclear whether or not the NG APG-81 AESA is GFE, or included in the contract.

Do we know the break down of the A's, B's, and C's yet?

alloycowboy wrote:

Do we know the break down of the A's, B's, and C's yet?

Yea, in the lead post it said:

21 -A
3 -B
6 -C

Thanks, I really got to get an easier reading LCD screen.

My understanding is that the engines and lift fan are the only customer furnished equipment on F-35. LM is responsible for the rest. The Radar is NGC who is a partner on F-35, while P&W and RR are not partners.

I have a question though. The original price tag of upper $50M to mid $60M (I might have misquoted that), did it include the engine? If not . . . I think the "but it doesn't include the engine" arguement should go out the window since the engine was never included in the quoted price. It is a distraction argument to make people think that LM has raised the price even more, when in reality engine was never included.

Sufa Viper

When LM quotes the $65 million cost, they are referencing the lifetime average REC flyaway cost in 2010 dollars, which does include the engine.

Now that our buddy McCain is sticking his longer nose into the AirForce maturity flights, will the Marine Corp fly around his bumblling efforts? Very Happy

SpudmanWP wrote:

When LM quotes the $65 million cost, they are referencing the lifetime average REC flyaway cost in 2010 dollars, which does include the engine.

Which the JPO has asked them not to do, I guess because it is misleading.

No, one member of the JPO asked the to stop using the number because the JPO thought that that it did not include the engine. That has since been clarified and the JPO is no longer asking them to stop.

SpudmanWP wrote:

No, one member of the JPO asked the to stop using the number because the JPO thought that that it did not include the engine. That has since been clarified and the JPO is no longer asking them to stop.

I missed the clarification - any idea of where it can be found?

sufaviper wrote:

My understanding is that the engines and lift fan are the only customer furnished equipment on F-35. LM is responsible for the rest. The Radar is NGC who is a partner on F-35, while P&W and RR are not partners.

I have a question though. The original price tag of upper $50M to mid $60M (I might have misquoted that), did it include the engine? If not . . . I think the "but it doesn't include the engine" arguement should go out the window since the engine was never included in the quoted price. It is a distraction argument to make people think that LM has raised the price even more, when in reality engine was never included.

Sufa Viper

I'm going to reattempt giving some context about costs, using the DoN FY2012 Budget estimates prepared in February 2011. I will use Rec Flyaway Cost (airframe/engines/electronics) for all examples:

F/A-18E/F: $57,727,000 (28 units)
EA-18G: $68,247,925 (12 units)
F-35C: $156,206,116 (7 units)
F-35B: $146,891,939 (6 units)
V-22 $67,171,755 (30 units)

The F-35 figures are of course way higher than what you would expect a few years down the road, but it also illustrates how much more efficient they need to be when they get to that road. And I don't have the AF numbers for F-35A, but I am sure that they are considerably lower.

AFAIK, the price of all SH variants is so low now because the RnD is already paid for by the previous lots of jets and are now only dealing with flyaway FRP costs. Before that last order, and the Growler, the F/A-18E/F had been purchased in it's planned quantity so now they are all bonus.

edit: That was my 1000th post! I love this place.

maus92 wrote:

I missed the clarification - any idea of where it can be found?

I will have do practice some Google-Fu and since I just started a new job, my spare time is non-existent.

I'll get it tonight.

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

LM gets $4B contract for 30 F-35 LRIP-V jets