Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Pressuring Lockheed for Fixed Price



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Conan
PostPosted: Nov 21, 2011 - 02:44 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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That assumes that the US will be willing to pay even more than they are now, on top of that they need to spend to get their own F-35's with the "hope" that they can then sell these excess airframes at some future point and recoup some of their expenditure.

I'm no investment guru, but that strikes me as a rather risky prospect. Especially when no current customer has shown the slightest interest in a lease...

The funding problem isn't in "out" years it's right now. It's a chicken and egg type issue. The complaints are that they cannot find sufficient funds NOW, but if they do finish SDD according to plan and get the F-35 into full rate production AND order the quantities of aircraft planned, the price WILL come down to affordable numbers...

The trick is how to find the funding to ensure the price gets low enough to deliver the cost effective fighter capability the program is intended to.

With the short term funding availability being the issue, how they are going to find "special stimulus" funds is going to be an insurmountable issue. If they could find that funding, the LRIP orders and FRP orders wouldn't be cut and the program wouldn't have any issue in the longer term...
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geogen
PostPosted: Nov 22, 2011 - 07:55 AM Reply with quote Back to top
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Conan wrote:
The funding problem isn't in "out" years it's right now. It's a chicken and egg type issue..


True, sorry for not emphasizing that point. The consideration being made was specifically geared towards 'stimulating' the 'now' years only, at least until FRP starts.

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quicksilver
PostPosted: Nov 23, 2011 - 03:12 PM Reply with quote Back to top
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marksengineer wrote:
The problem with L-M is that they haven't had a commercial product since the L1011 and have become less cost efficient. When you bid only cost plus contracts there is little incentive to constrain your costs thru engineering and efficient production techniques because it lowers your profits. I have always thought that the defense contractors know that any program has a high likelyhood of being terminated early so they structure their efforts to make the most profit in the engineering and devevelopment phases of the project. Remember the mangement team of any corporation is there to maximise stockholder return on investment.

DOD should just mandate fixed price contracts on the F-35 from this point on and require L-M to meet efficiency targets not only in the program but throughtout their organization. In other words require L-M to lower their overhead costs. What you will see around the country right now are businesses that have found a way to get buy with less people facilities and equipment. Don't think that has set it with the defense contractors. Additionally L-M would need to start a stock buyback program to reduce the shares on the market increasing the profit to share ratio to keep the investors happy. The big question is how much can the government demand in a free market economy?


Mark, since production costs are coming down the predicted learning curve, they are not the central issue -- so called 'concurrency' costs (i.e. change requirements) are. The government, which runs 'change' oversight on the program, wants the contractor to assume unlimited liability for any change traffic which the government approves during the remainder of SDD. What responsible CEO would sign up to that business model?
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