Forum: F-35 Lightning II

spazsinbad wrote:

maus92 - would you explain further what you mean by your comment please (in part) "...After little more than two weeks of tests (over pristine, unweathered decks?). Interested in 'my bold' words of your quote. Thanks.

The landing spots that the F-35B's used in these series of tests were very recently recoated specifically for the trials. The decks had not yet been degraded by weather, fluids, and general wear and tear that you would reasonably expect to incur during a deployment. As the deck coating ages, there is a greater possibility of the non-skid spalling or delaminating. With the higher velocity and volume of air exhausted by the lift fan and the jet nozzle, it creates the possibility of increased wear over time and during periods of high operational tempo. The resulting spall becomes a FOD hazard. The -B *seems* like it would be more vulnerable to FOD simply because it has more openings for junk to get sucked into... As a side note, any austere forward basing option for the F-35B would have to be swept clear for the same reason ...

OK, turn on the hate Smile

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Flat Decks are inspected all the time, sometimes by entire deck crew 'FOD walkdowns' and other regular and non-regular inspections. Everyone onboard is aware of FOD hazards, reporting any sign of the problems described by 'maus92'. An austere base would have a similar inspection regime. FOD onboard/austere base is a top priority. Over time (depending on how the deck does wear, in between F-35B testing and what is appled before/after) we will see the effects of father time. Already it has been made clear that THERMION is likely to be an outstanding new hard wearing flight deck coating compared to previous.

Did not realise that this was around but anyway...

The Power of the FOD Walkdown

http://www.alignedaction.com/2010/07/th ... -walkdown/
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FOD walkdown

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dn7Xwwcj9Sg

"oaded by TheDukeOfZyr on Mar 15, 2011
looking for anything that may cause Foreign Object Damage (FOD)"
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BigPic:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1002/107 ... 5ddd_b.jpg

"FOD Walkdown 040430-N-8148A-032
Newport News, Va. (April 30, 2004) - Aviation Boatswain's 2nd Class Marcus Aguirre leads a group of Sailors for a Foreign Object Debris (FOD) walk down after the conclusion of an abandon ship drill on the flight deck during a 48-hour Fast Cruise. Ronald Reagan is completing a six-month Post Shakedown Availability period at Northrop Grumman Newport News Shipbuilding, Newport News, Va., and is in preparation for transit to its new homeport of San Diego. U.S. Navy photo by Photographer's Mate 3rd Class Kitt Amaritnant."

How you can change your FOD walkdown by Denis Komornik 2004

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _n9485383/

"...During FOD walkdown, try this technique: Ask your shipmates if they have change for a dollar so you can buy a cold drink after you're done. Do they have it on them? Probably so. I've had more than one shipmate prove this to me on the flight line. We have been taught from the beginning of our careers that nothing should be brought out to the flight line that hasn't been accounted for. Pocket change is just one example. Pens are another major concern. I have seen enough pens in shirt pockets during the walkdown and recently on a launch evolution to fill a notepad...."
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And... some 'typical' navy humour...

Damn FOD Walkdowns" 08 July 2011

http://danthenavyman.blogspot.com/2011/ ... downs.html

"...On a bird farm, 'FOD' for all you out there who know no better is Foreign Object Damage... or in simpler terms, the kinda sh*t that gets caught in the engine of an aircraft and can end up crushing skulls and causing millions of dineros in damage!!! And in my days in the Navy, a FOD walkdown was a good ol' fashion nutt to butt single file line of walking up and down the flight deck and hangar bay looking for anything that can be sucked up a gaudamned jet engine so it was our job to make sure nothing was over looked!!! ...

Thermion if you read the information on the net is a fundamentally different coating than the standard non-skids. It is actually a plasma deposited metal-refratory compound. You purchase it as aluminum tubes filled with a refractory material. When you place it in the plasma gun and draw an arc it rapidly melts both the aluminum and refractory probably at 5000 deg. F and deposits them as compounds (matrix) on the steel deck plates. Although I haven't spoke with anyone on this it appears that you would have a metallic bond between it and the steel which as noted in their literature has a strength of 2500 psi. Don't know what the bond strength is of the standard epoxy coatings but I'd be surprised if they were higher.

It would be interesting to have a materials/metalurgical report on this stuff but I'd assume the process also forms aluminum oxides like those found on grinding wheels. This should give you a hard rough surface. Another aspect is with the aluminum in the compound you would expect the heat to disperse through the metal since AL is such a good conductor. Additionally the AL should provide donor electrons to the steel deck plates since it's more reactive providing protection from rusting.

There are a lot of plasma coating used in industry for surfacing machine components and the like. Looks like this on is optimized for the marine/aviation requirement. BTW I have no link to the firm that makes this coating.

Mark

marksengineer, thanks for clarifying more info about THERMION. (Name drawn from Therm - ion?)

maus92 wrote:

As a side note, any austere forward basing option for the F-35B would have to be swept clear for the same reason

Actually, not. They just perform a different type of landing with ground speed sufficient to keep the jet efflux aft of the intakes. Harriers have done the same thing for decades including DS/DS, OIF, and A-stan today. Plenty of discussion on it here at F-16.net...

quicksilver wrote:

maus92 wrote:

As a side note, any austere forward basing option for the F-35B would have to be swept clear for the same reason

Actually, not. They just perform a different type of landing with ground speed sufficient to keep the jet efflux aft of the intakes. Harriers have done the same thing for decades including DS/DS, OIF, and A-stan today. Plenty of discussion on it here at F-16.net...

Different jet.

Any austere runway would be cleared of FOD regularly - FOD is a hazard for any aircraft on the ground anywhere. Runways, taxiways are swept regularly with machinery for that purpose. An F-35B has a regular undercarriage (unlike the odd Harrier) so making any kind of 'running landing' very easy by comparison - most likely - given all the computer control enhancements for such things. It is clear AFAIK (without bothering to look it up again) from Harrier NATOPS that - unless cleared for a vertical landing - a running landing (within limits) is the way to land on less than ideal landing areas. There are a lot of factors to all of this. The 'Lockheed: Many F-35B landings won’t be vertical' 8 page thread has a good discussion of this issue along with many mentions elsewhere on this forum (especially SRVL):

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-15671.html

maus92 wrote:

quicksilver wrote:

maus92 wrote:

As a side note, any austere forward basing option for the F-35B would have to be swept clear for the same reason

Actually, not. They just perform a different type of landing with ground speed sufficient to keep the jet efflux aft of the intakes. Harriers have done the same thing for decades including DS/DS, OIF, and A-stan today. Plenty of discussion on it here at F-16.net...

Different jet.

Same landing. Go to Pax, see for yourself.

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

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