Forum: General F-16 forum

Last edited by 1st503rdsgt on Nov 03, 2011 - 06:30 PM; edited 2 times in total

Well, it looks like the F-16 will have to last a little longer. Is the USAF anticipating F-35 cuts?

Defense News wrote:

U.S. Air Force To Upgrade 300 F-16s
By DAVE MAJUMDAR 2 Nov 2011 18:45

The U.S. Air Force will upgrade between 300 and 350 F-16C Block 40 and 50 fighters with new avionics and increased airframe life, a three-star general said before Congress.

Testifying Nov. 2, Lt. Gen. Herbert "Hawk" Carlisle, Air Force deputy chief for operations, plans and requirements, also said the service doesn't have enough trained UAV pilots, and that the U-2 isn't quite ready for retirement.
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"You hear an announcement fairly quickly from the United States Air Force, we're going to [service life extension program (SLEP)] and avionics modernize probably in the vicinity 300 to 350 F-16s,".

That number could climb to 600 aircraft, Carlisle said, but it is not likely the Air Force will have to upgrade so many jets.

The modernized jets will be crucial to maintaining the Air National Guard (ANG) and Air Force Reserve fighter force. It will also help maintain the Air Force's dwindling arsenal of tactical fighters before the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) becomes operational.

Although the service doesn't yet know when the F-35 will become operational, the aircraft will likely miss the current projected date of 2016. The aircraft will likely become fully operational in 2018, Carlisle said, but the service is not naming an official date until the new master schedule is complete.

There is money in fiscal 2012 budget to develop a modernization program for the F-16, Carlisle said. The Air Force will start developing the avionics modernization plan soon, he said.

Maj. Gen. Jay Lindell, Air Force director of global power programs, said the airframe life of the F-16 would be increased from 8,000 to "at least" 10,000 hours. That would afford the Air Force eight more years of operations using the old aircraft, he said.

"We're looking at capability through the next decade, which would be through 2030," Lindell said.

Each plane would cost $9.4 million, he said, so the Air Force wants to get its money's worth.

The scope of the modernization plan for the F-16 fleet and the fielding of the stealthy new F-35 depends on the forthcoming integrated master schedule for the new jet, Carlisle said. The F-35 will be fielded to ANG units, starting with the Vermont ANG, he said.

With the upgrades, the F-16 could be serving for decades to come.

Source: http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... &s=AIR

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IIRC, the ANG and AFR were not scheduled to receive F-35s as they are not part of the 1700 USAF F-35s planned.

Last edited by Meteor on Nov 03, 2011 - 10:58 PM; edited 1 time in total

Lets see; $10 million per jet, an extra 2000 hours of flying time, for a program which hasn't even started development yet. I suspect the first of these SLEP'd jets will be available after 2015 at the earliest. On the other hand, there is a hot Block 50/60 production line for NEW F-16s which has lots of unused capacity in Fort Worth. I'd guess that if you offered LM a fixed contract for 300-350 of them, they's agree to sell them for $45-50 million each, and they could be delivered before the modified F-16s being proposed. It would seem that $10M for 2000 hours versus $50M for 10,000 hours is a wash. The difference would be that you keep a production line open, get new jets, you get them sooner, you don't have to develop a whole new program, and you don't run into the same aging aircraft problem in only 8 years.

On the other hand, new jets would be politically unacceptable, as it would interfere with the F-35.

Didn't these aircraft recently go through a CCIP upgrade? What else besides an AESA radar do they need? I can only see the next set of upgrades as F-22 and F-35 technology injected in to all the late model Vipers.

I agree. The Vipers will certainly be getting an AESA. Perhaps there could be engine upgrades? An Improved ESM suite? I'd imagine there will indeed be large amounts of tech transfer of 5th generation fighter technologies to the Vipers.

They need a number of mods to include another SLEP, an AESA, the EW systems are old, and probably some new wiring to handle all the new electronics. I'd personally like new, larger and/or additional displays too. Who knows what'll actually happen, maybe just the SLEP & AESA.

The F110-GE-132 engine might be nice. Maybe they could throw in the Falcon Edge EW suite?

Last edited by VprWzl on Nov 04, 2011 - 06:42 AM; edited 1 time in total

No new motors. Too expensive and we're not really lacking power. I haven't anything about a whole new 'Falcon Edge', it would more likely simply be an advancement in & better fusion of our current systems.

I guess we will have to wait till Feb to crack open the FY2013 docs and see what is involved.

They are not looking to go 'whole hog' into this - instead they're looking to get us the min we need to keep flying and fighting effectively through the end of the next decade.

New jets, with even just the current 'off the shelf' systems as a stop gap, would definitely be nice, as long as AESA was part of it. 7-8000 hr jets are old jets, even SLEP'd!

These Jets will be hopefully be qualified to 10,000 to 12,000hrs.
There is an Blk 50 aircraft right now getting the loads qualified.

ViperDude

Quote:

They are not looking to go 'whole hog' into this - instead they're looking to get us the min we need to keep flying and fighting effectively through the end of the next decade.

New jets, with even just the current 'off the shelf' systems as a stop gap, would definitely be nice, as long as AESA was part of it. 7-8000 hr jets are old jets, even SLEP'd!

Can you elaborate a little on this? My experience only deals with SLEP and upgrades of helicopters. What challenges, even with new avionics, wiring, and such, does the 7-8000 hours create?

Forum: General F-16 forum

US Upgrading 300 F-16s