Forum: F-35 Avionics

What does the one in F-35s do that others don't?

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Last edited by LinkF16SimDude on Oct 09, 2011 - 09:29 PM; edited 1 time in total

It replaces the HUD to start with. And besides being the primary weapon/sensor cuing device, it also gives the driver practically 360 degrees of sensor-fuzed SA at any given time via the DAS and other integrated systems. No other HMD does that AFAIK.

Interesting, just read up a little over on the Eurofighter.com site and apparently they are talking about this so-called Helmet Mounted Symbology System (HMSS) HMD with 360 deg SA?

Sounds like it's already operational or at least imminent. Not a bad investment and allocation of funds for a quick off-the-shelf innovation like this, to force-multiply the assets you have. Have to give respects where respects are due, especially to something as apparently game-changing as this system provides.

geogen wrote:

Interesting, just read up a little over on the Eurofighter.com site and apparently they are talking about this so-called Helmet Mounted Symbology System (HMSS) HMD with 360 deg SA?

Sounds like it's already operational or at least imminent. Not a bad investment and allocation of funds for a quick off-the-shelf innovation like this, to force-multiply the assets you have. Have to give respects where respects are due, especially to something as apparently game-changing as this system provides.

Without a system with 360 degree FOV like EODAS, how exactly are they achieving this level of SA?

Tiffies have 3 main targetting sensors at present (radar, IRST on some and Litening III pods) and they all face forwards...

Edit: Ah, they are not...

Quote:

Helmet Mounted Symbology System (HMSS)

The HMSS provides flight reference data, an energy cue, and weapon aiming through the pilot’s visor this will allow target acquisition and engagement at large off-boresight angles. The helmet also incorporates night vision aids using light intensification and provision for Forward Looking Infra-Red (FLIR) imagery.

That's a good question, Conan and something I was trying to quickly search on as well before posting - I should have included that as an anecdote. They do seem to claim that off-board SA data could be seen on the HMD for one. RWR info displayed on the helmet would probably be another. And it is implied the radar is actually allowing the 'look through the cockpit floor' SA capability, but I couldn't find which vision-capable MWS-type aperture system would complement the Helmet system's capability. At least it's a good fighter HMD and arguably the best today(?), with potential to grow if they integrate panoramic IR MWS vision capability which is apparently available today. I have to say though, the verbal commanded weapons operation function would seem to be a plus, especially when combined with HOBS missiles and a pilot w/ good head turning abilities in the heat of a fight. Cheers-

geogen wrote:

That's a good question, Conan and something I was trying to quickly search on as well before posting - I should have included that as an anecdote. They do seem to claim that off-board SA data could be seen on the HMD for one. RWR info displayed on the helmet would probably be another. And it is implied the radar is actually allowing the 'look through the cockpit floor' SA capability, but I couldn't find which vision-capable MWS-type aperture system would complement the Helmet system's capability. At least it's a good fighter HMD and arguably the best today(?), with potential to grow if they integrate panoramic IR MWS vision capability which is apparently available today. I have to say though, the verbal commanded weapons operation function would seem to be a plus, especially when combined with HOBS missiles and a pilot w/ good head turning abilities in the heat of a fight. Cheers-

If you are going to include MIDS LVT data, on-board RWR and radar data as "360 degree" SA then every single aircraft mounting JHMCS has it too...

Therefore I'm not quite sure what you mean by "best". The JHMCS and the new SAAB (Denel Optronics) "Cobra" HMS all seem to work pretty well and feature the same basic capabilities too.

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/i ... bra_lg.jpg

The JSF helmet is a step beyond those capabilities though, including them AND replacing the HUD AND streaming real time night vision and IR footage from EOTS and EODAS onto the visor (admittedly that is the functionality of the helmet that is having problems at present)...

And just to repeat... The F-35B/C with HMDS night vision (with horizon visible as well as carrier from some distance away) will revolutionise night 'pilot flying' carrier landings - to the 'easier' end. Very Happy

Automatic night carrier landings with JPALS will be less stressful also due 'night is day' visibility.

For the B specifically being able to look through the floor during vertical shipboard landing at night must be a terrific help.

SCROLL DOWN to 'night carrier landings': (there are other related threads also)

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... t-105.html
& [earlier page]
http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopi ... rt-90.html

Fair points, both. To answer the question, why would I say that the HMSS is the 'best'?? Um... because the Eurofighter website says: 'Nothing comes close'?? Cheers

Seriously though, I'd have to conjecture that besides the Helmet's verbal command functions, the suggested 'night vision aides' incorporated into the HMSS, as opposed to a separate NVG apparatus(?) might potentially be considered somewhat of a plus going for it, as well as the apparent streaming FLIR imagery provisions incorporated into the helmet?

And I admit I'm not up on my helmets, but I'm interested in the SAAB gear so appreciate that heads up too.

Regardless, this whole sector of evolving HMD technology, with incorporated SA capabilities et al, will surely accelerate rapidly worldwide over the next 10 yrs and get very competitive... 2 cents.

If the HMSS requires offboard data to provide the pilot a 360deg SA bubble, the data lag will not allow the A2A SA picture to keep up with events in real time e.g. hard maneuvering in a WVR environment.

HMSS coming "soon".. How's that AESA doing that is also "coming soon"?

The F-35's HMD coupled with EODAS is the only way currently that would allow a pilot to see everything around him in real time with the degree of situational awareness that the EODAS offers. The Eurofighter Typhoon's MAW is merely a staring array for detecting missiles and all of the other sensors save for the RWR point forward. The only way the HMSS could offer 360 SA is through datalinks that I'm aware of.

I thought the JSF HMD did more than just show symbology in a 360 deg sphere. It also displays what the eodas and eots cameras see projected onto the visor as well. Eg... The pilot can look through the floor and see the terrain under him like the aircraft didn't exist. He can zoom into a target in front, or below to look at it more closely using the feed from eots.

The technology for this will just get better and better over time (better response, higher resolutions, colour) and the possibilities are enormous with what can be done with it (eg. as I mentioned before, pilots being able to lay down in aircraft and look straight ahead without having to crane their neck forward...etc. Bye bye 9G turning limitation due to pilot). Its one of those technologies that you need to get started and continually develop. The world may have it one day, but unless they get started now, they'll just fall behind.

Because the code for this is being design to be easily re-used, this will almost certainly become a standard technology on all future US built military aircraft, especially for air superiority fighters.

Actually, the Typhoon's MAW is an active radar-based device (ie not optical) and an IR based replacement is [sarcasm]coming soon[/sarcasm].

Per the F-35's HMD: They are having issues (ie jitter and slight blur) with showing nighttime video on the visor. However, the rest of it's functions (display of flight data, target cuing, weapon cuing, etc) are working just fine.

What about daytime video? I was under the impression the problem with night time display resolution is due to limitations of the cameras rather than the display. Jitter was caused by the magnetic motion tracking being too sensitive between the helmet and the chair.

There is nothing wrong with the EODAS units, it's with the display in the HMD (not the 8x20 display either).

Forum: F-35 Avionics

Helmet-mounted displays