Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

T-50/Pak-fa intake fan blades showing. Am I the only one that can see them? I hear Mig-35 has RAM on the fan blades. I can't see that being as good as not seeing them in the first place. This is my first topic post so thanks.

F-16.net Sponsor

Sukhoi has claimed what you're seeing is actually a fan-shaped variable geometry radar blocker similar to the ones in the intakes of the Super Hornet.

Considering that the radar blocker was suddenly announced a few days after this photo had first been published, and that prior to that point it had been suggested that the PAK-FA used S-shaped ducts like the F-22/F-35, and that what I see in that picture looks to me exactly like the flow guide vanes on the front of a Saturn AL-31-family engine ... I tend to think it's the front of the engine. Nevertheless they might wind up putting a radar blocker in front of it some day. We did on the F-18 and it was said they could also do that on the F-15SE if it ever found any customers. I think the main significance is not that the engine faces will be sticking right out there returning clear radar signatures in the production plane, but that the design of the plane really is as straightforward as it seems. It's a very clear derivative of the Su-27 family. Same engine placement, same overall structural layout, likely the same internal arrangement of parts, same overall aerodynamics. And if you draw a line from the Su-27's droopy nose back to the tail stinger, you get almost exactly the doors of the centerline weapons bays. It's basically an aero/signature reduction kit over the same place an Su-27 keeps some of its missiles in its center tunnel. That's not an insult, the Su-27 family are very competent warplanes, and it makes a lot of sense for Sukhoi to re-use what works in the airframe and concentrate their limited development budget on the avionics and much-needed signature reduction. I think the PAK-FA is likely to be the 3rd best fighter in the world when it's finished in development. But it doesn't seem to be the same start-from-scratch leap the F-22 was over the F-15, more analogous I think to an F-15SE taken one step farther.

The argument about this photo was done to death over at the Key Pub forums. Personally I think this was a good photoshop job. If you have a look at the alignment of the engines to the intakes then factor in their length to the aircraft, the fans in the picture above are waaaay too far forward to be the engine.

river_otter wrote:

Sukhoi has claimed what you're seeing is actually a fan-shaped variable geometry radar blocker similar to the ones in the intakes of the Super Hornet.

Have Sukhoi claimed that or was it actually the 'enthusiasts' who claimed that? I'm familier with the thing you're on about but have never seen any official confirmation or even talk of such a device which is what makes me slighty curious/suspicious...

(I don't exactly follow the project closely though if i'm honest about it. Hopes 'Flateric' or someone else in the know might be able to help)

Looking at the "condition" of the surface with screws and fasteners sticking out, making it look like a porcupine, it is going to need a thick layer of RAM to make it anywhere near stealthy.

With dead straight inlets and the angle of the picture it is very hard to tell the distance to the fan looking thing. The use of flash may make it look further forward than it really is.

Check out this very high resolution diagram and you will see that they even draw the engines visible, if it is the engine we see. The layout visible in the picture also looks like the diagram, so I don't see any strong indications it is photoshopped.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/PAK-FA_diagram.jpg

Last edited by haavarla on Sep 01, 2011 - 07:02 PM; edited 1 time in total

Sorry for beeing a spoilsport here.
But if you take a peek at youtube of the Pak-Fa at MAKS 2011.
The thing takes a u turn right in front of the crowd.
Many media folks and amatours with very good lens and stuff.
None was able to get anything out of those intakes as it turned in front of us all.

Naah, this pic is PS from start to end, the fan blades are too close to the intakes.

haavarla wrote:

Sorry for beeing a spoilsport here.
But if you take a peek at youtube of the Pak-Fa at MAKS 2011.
The thing takes a u turn right in the middle of the crowd.
Many media folks and amatours with very good lens and stuff.
None was able to get anything out of those intakes as it turned in front of us all.

Naah, this pic is PS from start to end, the fan blades are too close to the intakes.

Do you have a link to anny of these pictures to show us? The key to the above picture is the use of flash. Otherwise you are unlikely to see much even in bright daylight.

Are there not any software tools that can be used to check or at least get a good idea if an image has been 'shopped' or not?

Last edited by haavarla on Sep 02, 2011 - 02:23 PM; edited 1 time in total

Quote:

Do you have a link to anny of these pictures to show us? The key to the above picture is the use of flash. Otherwise you are unlikely to see much even in bright daylight.

No pics, but a vid.
It was on the 18th, which mean only for media and specialists tickets!
It turns around directly infront of the media crowd.
Imagine people with 400mm-600mm camera lenses out there. Just flip into sport/speed priority shooting and someone should be able to get a good pic of those intakes duct..
And if the compressor fan was that close to the intakes, i'm sure it would have been picked up there at MAKS 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWxvJEwj ... re=related

river_otter wrote:

Sukhoi has claimed what you're seeing is actually a fan-shaped variable geometry radar blocker similar to the ones in the intakes of the Super Hornet.

Considering that the radar blocker was suddenly announced a few days after this photo had first been published, and that prior to that point it had been suggested that the PAK-FA used S-shaped ducts like the F-22/F-35, and that what I see in that picture looks to me exactly like the flow guide vanes on the front of a Saturn AL-31-family engine ... I tend to think it's the front of the engine. Nevertheless they might wind up putting a radar blocker in front of it some day. We did on the F-18 and it was said they could also do that on the F-15SE if it ever found any customers. I think the main significance is not that the engine faces will be sticking right out there returning clear radar signatures in the production plane, but that the design of the plane really is as straightforward as it seems. It's a very clear derivative of the Su-27 family. Same engine placement, same overall structural layout, likely the same internal arrangement of parts, same overall aerodynamics. And if you draw a line from the Su-27's droopy nose back to the tail stinger, you get almost exactly the doors of the centerline weapons bays. It's basically an aero/signature reduction kit over the same place an Su-27 keeps some of its missiles in its center tunnel. That's not an insult, the Su-27 family are very competent warplanes, and it makes a lot of sense for Sukhoi to re-use what works in the airframe and concentrate their limited development budget on the avionics and much-needed signature reduction. I think the PAK-FA is likely to be the 3rd best fighter in the world when it's finished in development. But it doesn't seem to be the same start-from-scratch leap the F-22 was over the F-15, more analogous I think to an F-15SE taken one step farther.

Dude. you are mistaken.
Sukhoi has not claimed anything of the sort.. where are your sources on this??
The only resembelence is the under side engines ducts. The intakes are different, but the back end with the nozzles is pretty much the same as a Flanker.
However, if you flip it around on the top side, its a totaly different beast. Completly different wings and stabz, the chined cockpit section. The LEVCONS. Look how the wings blends with the elevators..
In short a new design.

haavarla wrote:

Quote:

Do you have a link to anny of these pictures to show us? The key to the above picture is the use of flash. Otherwise you are unlikely to see much even in bright daylight.

No pics, but a vid.
It was on the 18th, which mean only for media and specialists tickets!
It turns around directly infront of the media crowd.
Imagine people with 400mm-600mm camera lenses out there. Just flip into sport/speed priority shooting and someone should be able to get a good pic of those intakes duct..
And if the compressor fan was that close to the intakes, i'm sure it would have been picked up there at MAKS 2011.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWxvJEwj ... re=related

Not sure how much pictures you have taken with 400-600mm lenses. I take a lot of pictures with my Nikon D300 and have lots of bad experience with low light. Your biggest problem when you do is to get enough light. To then set the camera for sport/action means further reducing the ability to take pictures in low light. As you stated before the engine is a long way back from the opening and the sun is over head so no light penetrates into the air inlets. In addition the shiny surface of the plane and canopy creates bright reflections, which further reduces a cameras ability to capture any details inside the intakes. Only by setting the camera on a tripod and over expose or with a close flash can you capture the fan or any radar blocker placed deep in the intakes. Nah, I still think the above pictures is good

Prinz_Eugn wrote:

That picture has been beaten to death and back on the keypublishing forums... do we really have to do it all over again here?

I have never seen the picture before nor have I ever been on the forum you are talking about. If the picture is shown on this forum, and some claim it is doctored and I disagree then it is natural that I respond accordingly.

Last edited by fighterfanboy on Sep 02, 2011 - 11:12 PM; edited 1 time in total

Real vs shop

lamoey wrote:

Prinz_Eugn wrote:

That picture has been beaten to death and back on the keypublishing forums... do we really have to do it all over again here?

I have never seen the picture before nor have I ever been on the forum you are talking about. If the picture is shown on this forum, and some claim it is doctored and I disagree then it is natural that I respond accordingly.

Here's one page:
http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=98990

Notice that thread is "Part 13"!

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

T-50/Pak-fa intake fan blades showing. Stealthy or not?