Forum: General F-16 forum

After 36years of glorious service, and still counting...the f-16 will definitely go down in the history books and the hall of fame with the title of the Greatest Fighter Plane ever built, the only plane to cross the 4400+ produced mark, it still is the most sought after 4/4.5 generation Fighter Aircraft for Air forces world wide.

In my opinion, The F-16 is here to stay for a considerable time now,as globally countries are cutting military spending to a bare minimum, and that the future of f-22 and f-35 still uncertain mainly due to cost and technical issues,let alone affordability.still the best low cost, all-weather, multi-role alternative is the f-16, and with the ever changing scenario of warfare, who needs stealth anyway??? Im all for Major upgrades to the fleets of f-16s and new orders as well by countries already operating this marvel of aviation science.

A Block-52+ F-16 costs around 40-50Million Dollars per plane, hence it is affordable, maintainable and can be procured in large numbers, now compare it with price tags of f-35 approximately US$155Million, and the shelved F-22 approximately US$200million+ per plane, which is the most viable and sustainable option of the three. Put the Common Platform for all branches of the military and the stealth debate aside. How do you replace 4000+ f-16s with less than 200 F-22s and 1500 f-35s! Due to f-35s cost over-run, various military branches will reconsider about the numbers to be procured.

And honestly, now with Saddam gone, and al-qaeda weakening and on the run, the world does not need Stealth and high-tech weaponry to fight countries like north korea and supposedly Iran, as now only these two countries pose a so-called threat to the western world. These Blue-eyed birds f-22 and f-35 can be deployed in small numbers to serve as a credible deterrence.

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pakviper wrote:

A Block-52+ F-16 costs around 40-50Million Dollars per plane, hence it is affordable, maintainable and can be procured in large numbers, now compare it with price tags of f-35 approximately US$155Million, and the shelved F-22 approximately US$200million+ per plane, which is the most viable and sustainable option of the three. Put the Common Platform for all branches of the military and the stealth debate aside. How do you replace 4000+ f-16s with less than 200 F-22s and 1500 f-35s! Due to f-35s cost over-run, various military branches will reconsider about the numbers to be procured.

F-35s don't cost $155m(the last batch of LRIP planes was ~$125m- FRP models should go for ~$65-70m)

F-22s cost ~$140-150m, not >$200m

The F-16 has been a remarkable success, and is still an effective aircraft(in permissive airspace). The problem that the F-16(or any non-stealth aircraft for that matter) faces, is that if an enemy has double digit SAMs, it's going to be a costly proposition of achieveing Air Superiority.

You can't put stealth aside, it is and will be for the foreseeable future a charactoristic of any modern AC.

Ask the Russian, Chinese and F-35 international parteners, if stealth is irrelavent?
Ask a combat pilot if he would prefer an upgraded F-16 or an F-35 to go into a high threat enviroment?

Consider the cost of new AC in general, spend a bit more and get a new world class combat AC.

Yes, there is a place for the F-16 today and for years to come, but it will not be a first responder.

WW- check your FY12 and soon to be FY13 F-35A PUC unit prices again. Eye popping figures really. Nothing like what was estimated (assumed) back in 2008, 2009, or 2010.

Pakviper - I fully concur with your well laid-out and overall logically made viewpoint regarding the F-16 aircraft system. Now if there were only more pakviper-type-thinkers in US Congress and strategic policymaking circles... imho. Salute

Respects-

Quote:

the only plane to cross the 4400+ produced mark,

I thought more than 5,000 F-4 Phantom II's were built?

All the participating nations in the JSF program are in a catch-22 situation and a dilemma over the numbers and types of F-35 to be procured,....secondly DOD and congress made an error in their judgement over capping and then afterwards halting f-22 production. In my opinion the F-22 is more suited to the so-called high threat environment as compared to the f-35, and can be employed in the air superiority+stealth Role for the foreseeable future, when choosing between the two. alas both the birds are going to put a hole in the governments pocket and hurt the tax payers immensely.

So, it is prudent to invest more in upgrades to the existing fleet of f-16s, and to procure more of them in significant numbers, and also to try and develop a version of the f-16 similar to the f-15 Silent eagle, so to speak. The lobbyists are in a tug of war, whether to buy more f-16s and fully upgrading the existing fleet of the same for USAF, or gradually shift the Air Defense Job to the 187 odd F-22As,or to replace entire fleets of f-16s, f-15s and f-18s alike for the sake of a so-called common platform in f-35 which in no way will support interoperability between all the branches of the military. The F-16 can perfectly compliment and support the F-22, f-15 and the f-18 hornet as well. it is time to choose wisely

dragracingmaniac wrote:

Quote:

the only plane to cross the 4400+ produced mark,

I thought more than 5,000 F-4 Phantom II's were built?

I think you're right

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_produced_aircraft

A pretty superb F-16 demo flight imho, for anyone just chilling out and feeling like watching an F-16 vid on youtube...

I'd personally love to see the Super Hornet keep up with this display (I know, it's not the SH's primary attributes), let alone an F-35 match the agility Salute

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS12HPEW_oQ

Now just add a GE-132 motor w/ TVC and perhaps a reduced-size, all-moving vert-stab and see what she can do.

15,579 P-47's were built...I think that might be the fighter record..lol

ViperDude

If you talk only jets and have no quality requirement, one (or all) of the Mig 17/19/21s may beat the mighty Viper and Phantom especially if you include the Chinese produced copies... Big No No

ViperDude wrote:

15,579 P-47's were built...I think that might be the fighter record..lol

ViperDude

Nope, Mig-21 production is the all-time high; in excess of 21000 copies of all versions if I recall the number correctly Wink

The F-16 will definitely remain an american success story, obviously with contributions from its partner nations and the countries operating it. and when i mentioned 4400+ copies produced till now, i meant its the most mass produced fighter of this era(mid'70s to-date), and the most popular too among the people who fly it or have flown,or associated with it in their respective capacities.

its anybody's guess whether the USAF and its european counterparts will order more of these jets as attrition replacement,stop-gap measure or long-term procurement plans until we are clear on the f-35, and some point in time about the f-22 as well,alas if sanity prevails in the DOD and congress/senate and obviously the president himself and the allied nations.

Looking at this from a procurement point of view, it is only natural that at some point, you must make the changeover from F-16 to something new - in this case it will be the F-35.
I fully agree that the F-16 is a success, no doubt!

I think that the problems with the F-22/F-35's is most disturbing - specially when you see that the new Sukhoi T-50 may be operational within 5 years. Why the US+allies have spent more than 10 years to date getting the F-35 flying is causing concern.

Boman wrote:

ViperDude wrote:

15,579 P-47's were built...I think that might be the fighter record..lol

ViperDude

Nope, Mig-21 production is the all-time high; in excess of 21000 copies of all versions if I recall the number correctly Wink

Bf109 - 33,984 Very Happy

@Boman:
The F-22, EF, and Rafale took just as long, if not longer.. and the F-35 is more complex than any of those three.

Forum: General F-16 forum

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