Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

airmaster11 wrote:

The T-50 according is more agile, Faster and has a better service ceiling. It is also cheaper has a better range. But it is still a Prototype.

None of what you've listed are hard facts, in other words its all nothing but speculation and wishful thinking from the Sukhoi design team and its followers until proven otherwise. Of course we also heard all of the same things about the forward swept wing Su-47 a decade ago and look how that turned out Wink

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airmaster11 wrote:

The T-50 according is more agile, Faster and has a better service ceiling. It is also cheaper has a better range. But it is still a Prototype.

According to whom, and based upon what? Nobody outside of Sukhoi/Russian Air Force knows what the T-50 can do, nor do they know what the F-22 is capable of. We at least have a baseline for certain claims about the F-22, but without knowing it's max potential. We have nothing to go on, with regards to T-50 capabilities in terms of speed/supercruise/supercruise range/turn rates/service ceiling/etc...

Does anyone have, like... something new on this topic? This fanboy talk is boring as hell.

For their sake, I hope the Russians better wind up with something credible that comes close to the hype.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news ... y-fighter-

Can Moscow regain superpower status? This fighter jet is key.

Russia’s military attempts to build a 21st century fighter. But can it?

MOSCOW – Russia is desperate for the world to think of it as a superpower again...

That all might sound formidable. But more than anything else, Moscow’s ability to reclaim global dominance depends on one key piece of military machismo: the sleek, futuristic "fifth generation" fighter plane known as the Sukhoi PAK T-50...

But the big question is, does Russia have the manufacturing wherewithal to make it happen?...

"Money is now available, and it may be that a single project like the T-50 is possible, even in Russian circumstances," says Vitaly Shlykov, a former Soviet war planner and ex-deputy defense minister of Russia. "But Russia has de-industrialized. It's basically a third world country that lives by oil extraction today. This rearmament program is a political campaign, to make Putin proud. The T-50 is essentially a political gadget."
..............

As I suspected. I'd worry more about the J-20.

Me too.

the stealth F-111 sized deep strike plane. that is a tactical battlefield weapon.

sprstdlyscottsmn wrote:

the stealth F-111 sized deep strike plane. that is a tactical battlefield weapon.

Exactly. Unlike the Russians, the Chinese aren't gonna waste time and money on a single-purpose airshow tumbler to take on the F-22/F-35 head to head. It's much easier to destroy bases and support assets with standoff weapons.

hmm, its what we do isnt it?

Last edited by 1st503rdsgt on Oct 26, 2011 - 12:44 AM; edited 1 time in total

You can keep being snarkey, but the J-20 (crude as it is) will probably have a longer range than the F-35, F-22, or T-50, making it an ideal system for an AF that doesn't have the support structure of the USAF. I wouldn't be surprised if they built two variants, one to match the Mig-31's mission profile, and the other to match the F-111's. Given it's size, they've apparently been sure to leave enough room for that kind of flexibility.

It's also worth bearing in mind that the best use of stealth is in the long range roles, what ever they are; and if the ATF competition had been held today instead of 20 years ago, you can bet your a$$ that the winner would have been much heavier than what we ended up with.

had to edit a typo

You mean J-20? Anyway it does seem logical that the J-20 isn't going to be playing the F-22's or T-50's game given its profile compared to them. It does seem like it could be used as either an interceptor or a deep penetration long range strike platform that could really put the hurt on assets. I can imagine that thing as a bomb truck and can think of how many targets it could take out cheaply and effectively. 1st503rdsgt is right. It could be used to attempt to deny access to on-station support like AWACs or it could be used like an f-117 on steroids.

Are we going to let the F-22's OBOGS problems become part of the equation?

discofishing wrote:

Are we going to let the F-22's OBOGS problems become part of the equation?

Yeah you're right, we're all getting a bit off-topic here.

1st503rdsgt wrote:

You can keep being snarkey, but the J-20 (crude as it is) will probably have a longer range than the F-35, F-22, or T-50, making it an ideal system for an AF that doesn't have the support structure of the USAF. I wouldn't be surprised if they built two variants, one to match the Mig-31's mission profile, and the other to match the F-111's. Given it's size, they've apparently been sure to leave enough room for that kind of flexibility.

It's also worth bearing in mind that the best use of stealth is in the long range roles, what ever they are; and if the ATF competition had been held today instead of 20 years ago, you can bet your a$$ that the winner would have been much heavier than what we ended up with.

had to edit a typo

I wasn't being snarky, I was agreeing with you. The "it's what we do" comment was in reference to what we did in our last few conflicts against actual nations. The B-2s combat debut was in just that kind of scenario. No reason to assume J-20wouldbe used in any different manner.

As far as the topic at hand.

If the T-50 tries to use all those high powered radars ( they like bragging about their 20 kW power vs our 2(?) kW ) then the Raptor will DEFFINATELY get first look and an AIM-120D will be headed it's way.

If the T-50 tries to be silent and use its IR tracker, then the F-35s will see it before it sees the Raptor. F-35s will datalink T-50 position to F-22, and again, an AIM-120D will be headed it's way.

If the T-50 happens to have these same F-35s in its forward arc, and if the OLS works as well as the EOTS/EODAS then the T-50 will be forced to fire its missiles at the (relative) multitudes of F-35s in the area in order to "sever the datalink" and will have no ammo to fire at the F-22. And while T-50 is killing F-35s, the F-22 is still sending AIM-120Ds it's way.

So in reality, the T-50 has only the slimmest chance of ever engaging the F-22, even if it never turns on the radar. F-35s will have a tough time.

It's doubtful they'll be able to afford more than 40 or 50 T-50's anyway. We think of the F-22 as a 'silver bullet' force but it should still outnumber T-50's by 3 to 1. And yes, I know Putin said it will be produced en-masse and will cost $10 million a piece or something equally stupid but his words hold no value, (please don't polonium-210 me for that, thanks)

The F-35's, even if not procured in the planned numbers will still outnuber them by a ridiculous margin. Russia is still pretty skint too despite what the fanatics will tell you, for example they've just had to dump the plan for a light weight 5th gen fighter to replace the Mig-29 because they simply cannot afford to do it.

To be honest with you I still have doubts as to whether it (T-50) will even enter production at all considering we heard all the same stuff about the Mig-144 or whatever it was called and the Su-47 and look what a turkey that turned out to be. T-50 seems to be just a slightly 'stealthified' Flanker and there's doesn't seem to be any radical game changing kit on it, unlike for example the F-22's game changing AN\ALR-94.

China is where the real danger is. Russia is only a threat to America/NATO in a nuclear war. Unless of course NATO were to fracture and half the nations bottle it as we saw in Libya.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Can F-22A defeat the russian T-50