Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

The idea here is to make arguments about what active (not speculative) weapon system and air to air missile combination is of the best quality. You can define your argument within whatever context and parameter of concept as you see fit. This is only about active systems. Avoid bringing up retired and future wean systems or aircraft. And this is about aircraft in the context of which specific weapon system it carries.

I would argue that the F-16 block 52 and aim-120b combination is the best active combination for the counter air role. Its current combat record speaks volumes.

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F-22 w/ AIM-120C7, F-15C/E w/ AIM-120D, F-18E/F w/ AIM-120D, would be my picks. A Typhoon with C7/D would also be very good.

The F-15 and Typhoon are far above the F-16. Golden Eagle has AESA and Blk52 has MSA. Then there's the F-22 but it's pointless to post about it since it's so far above everything else. Oh, BTW the 120C is in service. Why anyone would post Blk52/120B is incomprehensible but that's par for the course in some cases.

BTW, a minor point but is the 120D actually confirmed as being 'active' today? Wasn't there something about FY12 budgets eliminating 120D procurement funding too, for some technical reason?

Although, for conjecture sake I'd ponder the Su-35S + R-73M2 (if active), or Rafale + MICA-IR as currently being a superior combination overall. Typhoon + AMRAAM could be on par in that classification too imho, for overall superior effectiveness in a next-gen engagement (assuming 2x medium range RF guided missiles were successfully spoofed, jammed or otherwise evaded (per raw speed, manuevering or low observability,etc) and the engagement then entered into a near-WVR scenario @ 15-20km range).

This from the latest budget docs re:AIM-120D

Quote:

Dedicated OT will start in FY11, with Initial Operational Capability (IOC) on the F/A-18 E/F and F-15 C/D expected in FY12.

shingen wrote:

Why anyone would post Blk52/120B is incomprehensible but that's par for the course in some cases.

Because it's F16.net of course, silly.

I thick Shingen's point was "Why the 120B?" instead of a C7.

Ah, this is what I had recalled reading about re: the AIM-120D issue:

From FY12 Defense Appropriations House Report:

http://appropriations.house.gov/Uploade ... REPORT.pdf

"Currently, [AIM-120D] missile production is experiencing a growing backlog of more than 100 missiles and the fiscal year 2011 production contract has been delayed. The fiscal year 2011 budget request assumed that the 2011 production contract would award in February 2011, but the most recent information from the Department indicates the contract will award as late as August 2011, making a schedule slip into fiscal year 2012 more likely. Therefore, the recommendation removes 161 missiles and $172,358,000 from Weapons Procurement, Navy, and 218 missiles and $262,242,000 from Missile Procurement, Air Force. The Committee finds that the combination of the delayed fiscal year 2011 contract and the lag in production allows the requested fiscal year 2012 funding to be used for higher priorities."

And I guess in the context of this thread, the AIM-120C-7 would be the most capable 'active' AMRAAM among variants up for comparison.

SpudmanWP wrote:

I thick Shingen's point was "Why the 120B?" instead of a C7.

AIM-120B has a kill streak, AIM-120C7 does not. I chose the F-16 Block 52 over the F-15E because I said for the counter air role. It's all about framing ones argument. There really is no wrong answer in this debate.

I guess I'd go with these three in order.

- F-15C with APG-63V3/V2 and AIM-120C/AIM-9X
- F-18E with APG-79 and AIM-120C/AIM-9X
- F-16E with APG-80 and AIM-120C/AIM-9X

Just out of curiosity, how many F-15C/D aircraft have APG-63V2/V3 AESA radars? Are any F-15s or F-18s flying with IRST sensors yet?

IIRC there are around 18 APG-63(v)2. As to the APG-63(v)3, FY2010/11/12 produced 15/14/15 respectively.

I think the most interesting argument is where to place Golden Eagle (AESA) vs Typhoon (MSA and superior kinematics).

discofishing wrote:

Just out of curiosity, how many F-15C/D aircraft have APG-63V2/V3 AESA radars? Are any F-15s or F-18s flying with IRST sensors yet?

F/A-18E/F IRST system just completed Milestone B.

Aircombat is not videogame stuff there is more about it than just the radar or just the weapon. It's the overall weapon system performance that matters. Individual factors may carry more weight than others but in the end it's the sum of the parts.

madrat wrote:

SpudmanWP wrote:

I thick Shingen's point was "Why the 120B?" instead of a C7.

AIM-120B has a kill streak, AIM-120C7 does not. I chose the F-16 Block 52 over the F-15E because I said for the counter air role. It's all about framing ones argument. There really is no wrong answer in this debate.

The AIM-9L has a kill streak too, but that doesn't mean I'd pick it over an AIM-9X, ASRAAM, IRIS-T, Python V, etc... In BVR, the F-15E would still be a better counter air fighter, than any F-16 variant.

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Qualitative Advantage: BEST weapon system/AAM combination