Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Forced to agree with both stereospace and sprstdlyscottsmn there! And stereo I wasn't (and don't) wish for war (outside of the occasional video game session), tried to make that clear in my original post. Confused

But if conflict were to come I would want us (and our closest allies) to have the best equipment. Now possible security problems with other powers getting access to our equipment is a whole different can of worms...

F-16.net Sponsor

F-35 fighter plane to be based at Nevatim Date: 22/11/2011 Author: IAF Website

http://www.idf.il/1283-13893-EN/Dover.aspx

"The first F-35 stealth fighter plane is expected to arrive in Israel in 2015....

...The deal to acquire the F-35 was signed in the last year and the planes are expected to arrive in Israel in the next few years.

The Nevatim Airbase welcomed the decision to make it the future home of the F-35. The decision to place the F-35 at Nevatim was based on infrastructure and training considerations, as well as the IDF's vision to move many of its bases to the Negev....

...The first F-35 is expected to arrive in Israel in 2015, but Israeli pilots will be able to start training on it in the U.S. a year before that."

A IOT&E will cost them some two years, after the first F35 arrives in Israel in 2015.
So we could expect the Israeli having their first F35’s operational in ± 2017?

Last edited by spazsinbad on Nov 29, 2011 - 01:47 AM; edited 1 time in total

Doubling Down ALON BEN·DAVID/TEL AVIV
Israel reaffirms plans to take F-35 before USAF declares it operational. Israel stands behind the F·35.

The Lockheed Martin Joint Strike Fighter program may face u lot of uncertainty in the U.S., but the Israeli air force (lAF) is fiercely rejecting any suggestion that it explore other alternatives to the new fighter jet and is closing around plans to take deliveries of the F-35 "at the earliest date possible." The lAF is scheduled to receive its first F-35s for training in the U.S. in late 2016, with plans to deploy them in Israel the following year. ~We will deliver Israel a fully capable Block-3 F·35A," Dave Scott, Lockheed Martin's F·35 business development director tells Aviation Week. Yet, with the U.S. Air Force deciuring that the JSF will become operational only in 2018, it is not clear whether the first aircraft for the IAF wil! have full JSF software or will only allow for flight training.

Moreover, unlike most program partners, who plan to procure a limited number of aircraft from the low-rate initial production (LRIP) line while deferring massive procurement during serial production, Israel's first squadron of 19 F35s will be fully procured out of the LRlP line. Five aircraft in LRIP 8 are to be delivered in 2016, seven in LRIP 9 in 2017 and seven more in 2018 out of LRIP 10...."

Page 28 AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY/NOVEMBER 28, 2011
http://sitelife.aviationweek.com/ver1.0 ... 5.Full.jpg

The USAF definition of IOC means that Blk3 is done AND it has gone through the complete IOT&E cycle. Israel is not bound by the USAF's schedule or what the USAF does in IOT&E so they can declare IOC before the USAF does. According to the current schedule, LRIP8 jets will be the first to get Blk3. They are to be delivered in 2016, so all the Israeli jets (2016 and on) will be Blk3.

Maybe when the USAF sees the IAF declaring IOC before they do will light a fire under their asses to get it done sooner.

SpudmanWP wrote:

The USAF definition of IOC means that Blk3 is done AND it has gone through the complete IOT&E cycle. Israel is not bound by the USAF's schedule or what the USAF does in IOT&E so they can declare IOC before the USAF does. According to the current schedule, LRIP8 jets will be the first to get Blk3. They are to be delivered in 2016, so all the Israeli jets (2016 and on) will be Blk3.

Maybe when the USAF sees the IAF declaring IOC before they do will light a fire under their asses to get it done sooner.

Totaly agree although the USMC wish to begin IOC process by 2013 with BLK 2B, so anything can happens

spaz. do you have a link to Alon Ben David article?

I am very interesting to see what our MoD can negotiate with LM on the NSM missle..
Cause the NSM is by Norwegian eyes looked as Industry jobs float back deal in this F-35A deal.

And by the latest development, it now looks like USAF are aiming at their own US developed missile.

And can we get a deal regarding getting access to software for integrating the NSM missile ourself?

If the JSM is updated to UAI then it won't be an issue.

fang wrote:

spazsinbad wrote:

Argy Bargy [think of a number, think of another number - divide one by the other and get another number] over price (what's new) may be by Xmas we'll know.

Another reason Israel can postpone attack on Iran

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/op ... bled=false

"...The first, and so far only, squadron that the Israel Defense Forces will buy - the deal should be signed in two months - will not be flying in Israel at full throttle, with the full complement of 19 aircraft, before 2018. (Israel is to take delivery of five planes in 2016 and seven in each of the succeeding two years.)...

...The first deal has been agreed, but not signed: Israel and Lockheed have two months to seal the deal over the proprietary and unique development costs for the air force, the electronics and communications surprises that will give it an advantage.

The numbers are guarded like a trade secret, but while the official price is between $65 million and $80 million per plane - about the same as the F-16 being produced this year - in fact it is not far from what you get when you divide the total price of the deal, $2.75 billion, by the number of aircraft; in other words, $110 million to $120 million per unit (plus added cost that will not recur for successive deals )...."

What a lousy article, no wonder - The author is a political reporter with a very leftwing ideology anti the present government.
He also wrong with the facts, Israel orederd 20 jets not 19 and Israel can strike Iran with the present inventory (F-16i, F-15i, Submarines etc..)

Article above, Spazsinbad. As you can see it's not really that strange the author used the number 19.

Quote: Moreover, unlike most program partners, who plan to procure a limited number of aircraft from the low-rate initial production (LRIP) line while deferring massive procurement during serial production, Israel's first squadron of 19 F35s will be fully procured out of the LRlP line. Five aircraft in LRIP 8 are to be delivered in 2016, seven in LRIP 9 in 2017 and seven more in 2018 out of LRIP 10...."

Page 28 AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY/NOVEMBER 28, 2011

I thought the 'Answer to the Ultimate Question of Life, the Universe, and Everything' is 42?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phrases_fr ... the_Galaxy

fang, the internet is an amazing place.... Here is the complete article (scroll down)....

Doubling Down ALON BEN·DAVID Page 28 AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY/NOVEMBER 28, 2011

http://blog.daum.net/trent/8213146

"...Israel is still negotiating the contract for developing the unique capabilities it requires for its first F-35 squadron under a $2.75 billion budget. Those include the installment of Israel’s Blue Cedar C4I system, as well as rewiring to accommodate Israeli electronic warfare (EW) systems in Apertures Band 2 and 5 in the belly and wings of the JSF. Israel also is planning to install an external EW pod on its F-35s.

Additional Israeli requirements, such as installing Rafael’s Python-5 air-to-air missile and Spice air-to ground bomb in the F-35s internal weapon bay were deferred as costs of adjusting the aircraft and weapons to fit together were enormous. Israel also postponed its requirement to add a 600-gal. external fuel tank. The final contract for the first F-35 squadron should be inked by mid-2012....

...Yet, the IAF persistently refuses to consider buying a different fighter like Boeing’s F-15s in the interim to bolster its capabilities despite repeated pleas from other defense officials. “The only potential fighter is the F-15 and it costs almost like an F-35,” said the IAF officer. “In any case, even if we place an order for new F-15s today they will arrive no earlier than the F-35.”..."

ALL of the article at the URL above.

spazsinbad wrote:

fang, the internet is an amazing place.... Here is the complete article (scroll down)....

Doubling Down ALON BEN·DAVID Page 28 AVIATION WEEK & SPACE TECHNOLOGY/NOVEMBER 28, 2011

http://blog.daum.net/trent/8213146

"...Israel is still negotiating the contract for developing the unique capabilities it requires for its first F-35 squadron under a $2.75 billion budget. Those include the installment of Israel’s Blue Cedar C4I system, as well as rewiring to accommodate Israeli electronic warfare (EW) systems in Apertures Band 2 and 5 in the belly and wings of the JSF. Israel also is planning to install an external EW pod on its F-35s.

Additional Israeli requirements, such as installing Rafael’s Python-5 air-to-air missile and Spice air-to ground bomb in the F-35s internal weapon bay were deferred as costs of adjusting the aircraft and weapons to fit together were enormous. Israel also postponed its requirement to add a 600-gal. external fuel tank. The final contract for the first F-35 squadron should be inked by mid-2012....

...Yet, the IAF persistently refuses to consider buying a different fighter like Boeing’s F-15s in the interim to bolster its capabilities despite repeated pleas from other defense officials. “The only potential fighter is the F-15 and it costs almost like an F-35,” said the IAF officer. “In any case, even if we place an order for new F-15s today they will arrive no earlier than the F-35.”..."

ALL of the article at the URL above.

TNX spaz, It seems some quick korean bloger uploaded it in a very colorfull way Smile

There are several mistakes which surprises me - Alon Ben david should know better..

Wonder if there's any outside influence's pushing Israel towards the F-35 as compared to the F-15SE (Silent Eagle) which would be available sooner at least (with possibly better range, and better upgrade capabilities for Israel avionics).

Did you miss this part of the article? The F-15 (let alone the SE) WILL NOT be available any sooner than the F-35.

Quote:

“In any case, even if we place an order for new F-15s today they will arrive no earlier than the F-35.”

Thanks Spud blinked and missed that Doh

Still it's hard to believe that a warm production line is slower than an aircraft still in testing....

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Israel, U.S. Strike F-35 Technology Deal