Forum: F-35 milestones

Last edited by spazsinbad on Jan 19, 2012 - 04:30 AM; edited 3 times in total

Just for the record: QLR Page 11/12 has this quote: "...The current F-35C tailhook point design (Appendix Figure 9, page A-10) was based on the F/A-18E/F design which has a blunt face to better provide cable shredding protection versus scooping. However, the FIA -18E/F's geometry places the distance of its main landing gear to tailhook point at 18.2 feet..."

QUOTE repeated here also: http://theaviationist.com/tag/boeing-fa ... er-hornet/

"...Although the current F-35C tailhook point design was based on that of the Hornet, the F-18 geometry places the distance of its main landing gear to tailhook point at 18.2 feet..."
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And here: http://thanlont.blogspot.com/2011/12/br ... esign.html

"...so that the current hook point (which was based on the proven F-18 design) ..."
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Some Say I'll look for some Hornet Hook close ups. Very Happy

And WickedPedia is closed today (for naughtiness?)

http://personal.eunet.fi/pp/vmhalme/hor ... finnaf.jpg
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+ ZOOMs from:

http://ipmsnl.netfirms.com/walkarounds/ ... G_3681.jpg
&
http://ipmsnl.netfirms.com/walkarounds/ ... G_9054.JPG
&
http://ipmsnl.netfirms.com/walkarounds/ ... G_8405.JPG
&
F/A-18F Super Hornet:
http://ipmsnl.netfirms.com/walkarounds/ ... G_8405.JPG

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Are you sure Spazsinbad (aka captain hook) they look different?.....

As you can see I have been looking for the perfect photo. I made the claim that 'Some Say' remember. Now I don't have either an F/A-18 series of hooks handy to just go take the perfect matching photo - so I have to scour the internet looking for same - if only for my personal interest. I make no claims otherwise. Youse can see for youseselves. OK?

Proably the Super Hornet Hook more closely resembles the F-35C current design that does not work. So now I'll look for more SUPER HOOKS! Please bear with me - or not. Twisted Evil

One has to look at the last photo in the first series above which is the only Super Hornet Hook. Also that HOOK is UP whilst the photo of the F-35C shows it on the deck. I could rotate the photo of the Super Hook but it will still not match the side view, so youse can rotate the hook in youse mind's eye. OK? Rolling Eyes

The Super Hook is from this walkaround series here:
http://ipmsnl.netfirms.com/walkarounds/ ... 8F-CH.html

So to be clear:
F-35C
http://www.f-16.net/attachments/f_35cho ... ew_520.jpg
&
F/A18-E/F
http://www.f-16.net/attachments/superho ... om_786.jpg

From same Super Site above here is the rear hook view + ZOOM:
http://ipmsnl.netfirms.com/walkarounds/ ... G_8408.JPG

Another WALKaround Joint is here:
http://www.arcair.com/awa-archives/walk-jet.shtm

SuperDooperHornetHook Rear View:
http://www.arcair.com/awa01/601-700/awa ... ran/09.jpg

@ Spaz.... I definetly agree that the design is similar but disagree about them having a similar profile.

Last edited by spazsinbad on Jan 19, 2012 - 05:13 AM; edited 1 time in total

For interest sake perhaps (and remember this Growler is likely NOT flying at Optimum Angle of Attack - so the nose is lower in coomparison - thus hook point higher in relation to main wheels). Anyway Pic + Zoom:

JAMMIN' WITH THE GROWLER

http://www.combataircraft.net/reports/growler.php

http://www.combataircraft.net/reports/i ... owler5.gif

allowcowboy - to compare hook profiles one would need to have these profiles to compare. We do not see a Super Hornet or even Hornet Hook profile for comparison - yet. One may be found to do so eventually.

Last edited by spazsinbad on Jan 19, 2012 - 10:17 AM; edited 2 times in total

An F-14 hook was brought into the discussion earlier. Here is a good scale comparision couple of pics + ZOOMs:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3088/2640 ... 73be_b.jpg
&
http://farm2.staticflickr.com/1329/9930 ... z.jpg?zz=1

Lots of tailhook action in this collection:
http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/tailhook/

Photo suggests only an F/A-18 hook but whatever (only Zoomed shown):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/yodamon/50 ... otostream/

Some perspective...

F-35 Tail Hook Risks? Meh. 19 Jan 2012 by SMSgt Mac

http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com/201 ... s-meh.html

Some stuff already mentioned at beginning (worth going to read though) then this:

"PS: I’d discuss the technical challenges of successful arresting gear development in more detail, (beginning with the fact that when it comes to an aircraft system interacting with the ship system what we are talking about is essentially a chaotic meta-system) but most people’s eyes would glaze over before I was finished. OK, I admit it, since I deal with this kind of stuff from 9 to 5 it would be no fun for me either. The article linked above covers what may be the critical bits in this case anyway.
Just think about ALL the variables that might be involved and you’ll get the idea."

spazsinbad wrote:

Some perspective...

F-35 Tail Hook Risks? Meh. 19 Jan 2012 by SMSgt Mac

http://elementsofpower.blogspot.com/201 ... s-meh.html

Some stuff already mentioned at beginning (worth going to read though) then this:

"PS: I’d discuss the technical challenges of successful arresting gear development in more detail, (beginning with the fact that when it comes to an aircraft system interacting with the ship system what we are talking about is essentially a chaotic meta-system) but most people’s eyes would glaze over before I was finished. OK, I admit it, since I deal with this kind of stuff from 9 to 5 it would be no fun for me either. The article linked above covers what may be the critical bits in this case anyway.
Just think about ALL the variables that might be involved and you’ll get the idea."

Interesting that Grumman actually built a double-jointed hook arm. So if ever it came down to needing a longer arm, they actually have experience with a folding arm to fall back on.

Salute!

Talked with the F-35 folks at Eglin yesterday and they said the "A" hook works just fine on the basic USAF abort or approach end engagement.

That sucker is submerged, so I couldn't get a good pic of it. It's also a very short distance from the main gear, so maybe the thing just workd better ( or designed) for the typical USAF use versus a carrier landing. I also suspect that the basic USAF cables work better due to the "donuts" versus those wire doofers on the boats. In other words, the cable stays up off the deck for the hook to engage.

The pic shows how short the thing is. It's almost to the exhaust nozzles and behind the power package exhaust in this pic. Sorry I couldn't get a better view.

My after action report on our F-35 tour on another thread when I get time.

Gums sends...

Last edited by spazsinbad on Jan 21, 2012 - 10:01 PM; edited 3 times in total

Gums, thanks for the pic. The F-35A hook arrangement is quite different. Until I saw this F-35A emergency hook drawing graphic below I had wondered why the arresting photo of the F-35A seemed to make the hook / shank invisiible. I guess it is a 'stealth' hook. Very Happy

Would like to know more about it but for the moment the graphics will have to suffice. Also I would suggest that the 'wire supports' onboard steel deck aircraft carriers are actually better than the rubber grommets ashore.

A lot is made of the wire being flat on the deck (after/during the trample momentarily). It seems obvious to me that the new hook point design will scoop up a 'flat on the deck trampled cable' (compared to original design). We'll see eh.

This thread has A-4 hooks which to me look like the new hook design for the F-35C. The A-4 hook worked well and was also had short main wheel to hook point length compared to some other USN aircraft. I don't think the sky is falling - unlike elp/Goon for example. Very Happy

And perhaps not obvious - until close-up made of the hook point/shoe of the F-35A emergency hook - one can see the similarity between F-35C intended redesign and also A-4 hook. All good. No? Now only a slightly retouched F-35A hook does look like an A-4 Hook eh.

http://www.f-16.net/attachments/f_35cho ... ig_145.gif

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Arresting F-35s & Brake Testing for more info on F-35A AA-01 testing

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewtopic-t-14400.html

http://www.f-16.net/attachments/f_35azo ... um_289.jpg

And a compilation of hook shoes... and the bleedin' main wheel hook distance chart from:

http://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/2 ... report.pdf (~18Mb)

I note this and a few other charts are not in the Aviation Week Version here:
Got to this page first:
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/extra.jsp
Then download from link named:
"December 2011
(Dec. 14) DOD F-35 Joint Strike Fighter Concurrency Quick Look Review"

http://www.aviationweek.com/media/pdf/awst_pdf/ (~18Mb)

It is likely the last URL above cannot be used directly so get to it as recommended above.

Forum: F-35 milestones

F-35C Lands at Lakehurst For Testing