Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

As some people may know, one of the requirements for the JAST program (which eventually led to the JSF program) was that each aircraft was to have a STOVL version in addition to the CTOL and naval versions. Would it have been a good idea to eliminate the STOVL requirement and encourage the USMC and British to collaberate on a dedicated harrier replacement?

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Last edited by aaam on Apr 09, 2011 - 10:10 AM; edited 1 time in total

smarino18 wrote:

As some people may know, one of the requirements for the JAST program (which eventually led to the JSF program) was that each aircraft was to have a STOVL version in addition to the CTOL and naval versions. Would it have been a good idea to eliminate the STOVL requirement and encourage the USMC and British to collaberate on a dedicated harrier replacement?

The Common Affordable Lightweight Fighter (CALF), which begat JAST did not have a STOVL requirement. USMC (with Britain watching eagerly) were starting the ASTOVL (Advanced STOVL) aircraft development program Congress in 1994 mandated that ASTOVL be folded into the JAST program, and thus was born JSF.

Quote:

Congress in 1994 mandated that ASTOVL be folded into the CALF program, and thus was born JAST

Looking back now, whoever proposed that imo is an exceptional idiot! What was the DoD reaction to this?

Well, for a pretty good brief on the overall ASTOVL-CALF-JAST-JSF history, imho one could simply read the brief found on Wiki which I think is a pretty interesting summary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Stri ... er_Program

If you're absolutely looking for that 'one guy' to point a finger at - from an 'inception point' of view (i.e. where it started from, albeit well intentioned and revolutionary) - well, then it could arguably be this guy to a large extent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bevilaqua

Things really got cooking in 1993 apparently, when JAST was apparently formed and set in stone, as a result of D0D's Bottom-Up Review which would end F-16 procurement and recommend that USN get in on the joint Program to SAVE MONEY going forward. Shrug

smarino18 wrote:

Quote:

Congress in 1994 mandated that ASTOVL be folded into the CALF program, and thus was born JAST

Looking back now, whoever proposed that imo is an exceptional idiot! What was the DoD reaction to this?

Since Congress signs the checks, they do what they're told, especially given who was in power at the time. Also, if Congress makes it a law, there's nothing else they can do.

geogen wrote:

Well, for a pretty good brief on the overall ASTOVL-CALF-JAST-JSF history, imho one could simply read the brief found on Wiki which I think is a pretty interesting summary.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Stri ... er_Program

If you're absolutely looking for that 'one guy' to point a finger at - from an 'inception point' of view (i.e. where it started from, albeit well intentioned and revolutionary) - well, then it could arguably be this guy to a large extent: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Bevilaqua

Things really got cooking in 1993 apparently, when JAST was apparently formed and set in stone, as a result of D0D's Bottom-Up Review which would end F-16 procurement and recommend that USN get in on the joint Program to SAVE MONEY going forward. Shrug

Just remember, on this kind of stuff, you can't always take Wikipedia as gospel. However, I am guilty of mixing up some acronyms on my original post, which I have now corrected.

You know, even if the STOVL version was not forced into the program, the USAF and USN would have fallen back to the 1 engine vs. 2 argument and we'd be right back to F-16 vs. F-18. STOVL cemented the requirement to 1 engine and the rest is (painful, ongoing) history.

Lightndattic wrote:

You know, even if the STOVL version was not forced into the program, the USAF and USN would have fallen back to the 1 engine vs. 2 argument and we'd be right back to F-16 vs. F-18. STOVL cemented the requirement to 1 engine and the rest is (painful, ongoing) history.

Not necessarily, IMO. Number of engines was only one of a number of reasons USN selected F-18 over F-16 for NACF. Navy has bought a number of single engined aircraft, depending on the need. In fact, the Navy replaced a twin engined aircraft with a singe engined aircraft for its carrier-capable trainer. Even before ASTOVL was shoehorned in, CALF was probably going to be single engined because of the desired size.

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

STOVL in JAST a mistake?