Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Some recent fawning over the f-15se has got me thinkin' about what kind of motors boeing plans to use. I'd ASSume that it's going to be some version of the f100-pw-229, although the increased thrust of the f110-ge-132 looks pretty tempting.

Does anybody "in the know" have a good answer?

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They are offering the F110-GE-129 as well as the F100-PW-229. The modest performance gains of a further uprated engines aren't considered to be worth the investment. That's straight the line from a Boeing representative.

[quote="Scorpion82"]They are offering the F110-GE-129 as well as the F100-PW-229. The modest performance gains of a further uprated engines aren

Quote:

They are offering the F110-GE-129 as well as the F100-PW-229. The modest performance gains of a further uprated engines aren't considered to be worth the investment. That's straight the line from a Boeing representative

Thanks Scorpion82!

Kinda getting OT, but do you think that the ge-132 would be better suited for single engined aircraft?

A hypothetically FY14 procured F-15SE (or F-15SA equivalent) could be best ordered with the next gen, advanced augmentation based F110-GE motor, imho. This will be an engine rated for 33k lbf class, but when configured for about 30k lbf it would better enable max reliability and reduce maintenance costs.

The GE-132 can do that apparently, when down-rated to a 29.5k lbf thrust level... but the next gen motor would apparently do it even better and with more performance.

I don't see any in-house PW development attempting this same result (they seem to be more busy on the F119 and F135).

Either way, these new build F-15s will be much cheaper to maintain than currently operating F-15E in terms of dollars per operating hr.

I'd think the PW-229EEP would beat the GE-129C or GE-132 in open competition. The EEP has increased overhaul intervals 50% over the previous generation PW-229. Any countries already operating the Eagle with PW-100 or PW-220(E) (Or PW Vipers) would have a majority of the tooling needed for the PW-229. (Unlike a complete retool to GE equipment.)

The PW-229EEP has been outselling GE-129 for years now and the GE-132s have only been purchased by UAE (80 aircraft) to date. No other country has managed to fund/acquire the GE-132 for either the Viper or Eagle. Either they haven't been allowed too, or they haven't wanted too?

imho TEG

Hmm, i thought that the f-16IN proposal also had the GE-132? I could see where the extra power of the -132 would come in handy with the single engined aircraft, particularly with fully loaded CFT's.

smarino18 wrote:

the f-16IN proposal also had the GE-132

Yes, you are correct, and it was just that a proposal... not an order or service. Does one honestly think that India would purchase a fighter that it's #1 rival has been operating for over 25 years? and has recently taken delivery of Block 52+ Vipers? Sure the Viper-IN may have new guts and new weapons, but the basic airframe and combat maneuverability of the jet will remain very similar; Strengths/weaknesses won't differ all that much especially to an experienced Viper Jockey with 20+ years of flight experience... Also consider the Indian use of Sukhoi Su-30, and investment in the T-50 program; why buy Gen 4.5 Viper-INs?IMHO- no they wouldn't.

To date only 81 Block 60 E/F Vipers have been powered by the GE-132. In comparison to 559 Block 52 C/D powered by the PW-229 (delivered or on order) and 387 Block 50 C/D powered by the GE-129 (delivered or on order). Adding GE-129 and GE-132 sales in Vipers shows a total of 468 GE powered Block 50/50+/60 Vipers in comparison to 559 Block 52/52+ PW-229 powered Vipers. Not to mention the 50 (or so) ANG Block 42s that were 'upgraded' to PW-229. Just saying lately the PW-229EEP has been the engine of choice for new Viper orders. Only 1.8% of Vipers EVER produced are of the E/F Block 60 variety with GE-129.

smarino18 wrote:

I could see where the extra power of the -132 would come in handy with the single engined aircraft, particularly with fully loaded CFT's.

The GE-132 weighs 350 pounds more than the PW-229 and has a higher SFC at MAX power too. (according to public sources) Couple this with the 50% lower TBO of the PW-229EEP, and the GE-132 becomes an expensive engine to operate for 20-30 years..... It's not always about power but economics; especially if you're running twin engines in an Eagle.

Only 100 or so Eagles of the 1200+ production have been powered by the F110-GE-129C. (or 8.3% of production) Add to that Korea's second batch of F-15Ks are PW powered.... a very abrupt switch indeed.

Cheers

TEG
Hopefully I can still operate 'calc' after a few beers.

Quote:

Yes, you are correct, and it was just that a proposal... not an order or service. Does one honestly think that India would purchase a fighter that it's #1 rival has been operating for over 25 years? and has recently taken delivery of Block 52+ Vipers? Sure the Viper-IN may have new guts and new weapons, but the basic airframe and combat maneuverability of the jet will remain very similar; Strengths/weaknesses won't differ all that much especially to an experienced Viper Jockey with 20+ years of flight experience... Also consider the Indian use of Sukhoi Su-30, and investment in the T-50 program; why buy Gen 4.5 Viper-INs?IMHO- no they wouldn't.

To date only 81 Block 60 E/F Vipers have been powered by the GE-132. In comparison to 559 Block 52 C/D powered by the PW-229 (delivered or on order) and 387 Block 50 C/D powered by the GE-129 (delivered or on order). Adding GE-129 and GE-132 sales in Vipers shows a total of 468 GE powered Block 50/50+/60 Vipers in comparison to 559 Block 52/52+ PW-229 powered Vipers. Not to mention the 50 (or so) ANG Block 42s that were 'upgraded' to PW-229. Just saying lately the PW-229EEP has been the engine of choice for new Viper orders. Only 1.8% of Vipers EVER produced are of the E/F Block 60 variety with GE-129.

point taken

Quote:

The GE-132 weighs 350 pounds more than the PW-229 and has a higher SFC at MAX power too. (according to public sources) Couple this with the 50% lower TBO of the PW-229EEP, and the GE-132 becomes an expensive engine to operate for 20-30 years..... It's not always about power but economics; especially if you're running twin engines in an Eagle.

3,000 pounds extra thrust for 350 pounds extra weight seems to be a pretty good tradeoff, although i agree that the increased fuel consumption and maintenance costs are a long term concern. Maybe GE could do an "EPE" program ala f414?

Quote:

Hopefully I can still operate 'calc' after a few beers.

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

engines for f-15se