Forum: F-35 Lightning II

From http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articl ... codes.html

Quote:

Turkey Puts F-35 Order on Hold Over US Refusal to Share Technology

(Source: Today’s Zaman; published March 23, 2011)

Turkey has announced that it is putting the planned purchase of 100 F-35 fighter jets from the US on hold because the Pentagon refuses to share the source code used in the software designed for the aircraft as well as the codes that might be used externally to activate the planes.

Defense Minister Vecdi Gönül said on Tuesday, following a meeting of the Defense Industry Implementation Committee, that the negotiations over the F-35 procurement tender had not yielded "satisfactory results". He said, "We will evaluate the order in the next meeting, in light of the progress made in the talks by then".

He said much ground had been covered in the talks in terms of technology sharing, but this was not enough for Turkey to accept the jets. He said the costs of the project had also increased but that the Turkish side had failed to secure the source code and the remote flight codes for the planes for which it will be paying $16 billion.

Without the source code, Turkish engineers wouldn't be able to make any changes to the software that operates the jets. The external flight codes are equally important, if not more, as they can be used externally to navigate the jets.

What the heck are "remote flight codes" or "external flight codes"? Are they saying that you can fly the F-35 unmanned?

p.s. I kept getting the following error when trying to post the article. It seems to be related to teh initials SSIK from the original article. Also, the last sentence (about who attended the meeting) could not be posted as it generted the same error. Here is the error.

Code:

Could not insert new word matches

DEBUG MODE

SQL Error : 1271 Illegal mix of collations for operation ' IN '

INSERT INTO pn_phpbb_search_wordmatch (post_id, word_id, title_match) SELECT 193618, word_id, 0 FROM 

...... (had to edit it out in order to post) .....

Line : 251

File : functions_search.php

F-16.net Sponsor

This 'turkish' language G character probably causes error: ?

Also this 'turkish' CAPITAL I is the problem in SSIK - ?
___________

These are tests.... Last para:

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdo?an, Chief of General Staff Gen. I??k Ko?aner and Minister Gönül attended Monday's SS?K meeting, which took place at the Undersecretariat for the Defense Industry (SSM) offices.

------------------------

My post got an error but I just punch through it to go to the post again - where last para now exists above. I get this a lot - whatever. Very Happy

________________________

I'm guessing that the Turkish Government wants to play politics with the F-35 purchase. Already this issue has been hammered out to all other buyers satisfaction. Go figure.

______________________

Often when cutting and pasting - temporarily - without saving - the text is pasted into a text file and then pasted into forum. By not saving all the strange formatting is preserved as best as can and all the junk is gone. Twisted Evil

SpudmanWP wrote:

What the heck are "remote flight codes" or "external flight codes"? Are they saying that you can fly the F-35 unmanned?

I think they're worried about hidden "back-door" codes that could theoretically be used to disable the aircraft remotely. A software-based kill switch or dead-man's switch, of sorts.

They could have all the codes in the world but a hardware based kill-switch would still take them down. They would not be able to stop this unless they somehow were able to reverse engineer every chip on the plane.

Here's how we should handle this. Say a resounding "hell no" on the letting them have the software code and tell them they can feel free to buy the Rafale, Typhoon, Su-30 or any other inferior plane.

They can also kiss goodbye any future offsets. I am sure other partner nations would love to have a share of what Turkey would have produced.

They aren't getting the source code... they might as well spare us all the drama.

This is a negotiating tactic (and a quite obvious one too). Turkey just received a bill for an additional $4 billion to cover development and procurement costs for their initial batch of 100 planes. Just like everyone else would do, they are asking the question 'what will my extra money get me'? I suspect what this government really wants are more offsets and more locally produced parts plus the ability to integrate domestically produced munitions. I mean get real guys - they aren't stupid. They can see that the US refused the same request from the UK and Israel and wouldn't expect an inconsistent response, regardless of what is reported in the press.

Yeah, definitely not a realistic request... not even the UK gets the source code. Probably just trying to hold out for more benefits.

I'm just curious as to why they even tried. Wasn't there another thread talking about the Turks getting the software code for the F-16?

....meanwhile there are gearing up to build F-35 center fuselages. Nice bluff.

Anyone have any information on Turkey's rationale for asking for F-35 code? I understand they're starting to do a lot more defense programs on their own, that probably is a clue. They're getting state of the art, right off the bat. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

I would rather the Turks didn't get the F-35 as they are clearly an untrustworthy bunch. You've only got to look at the stunt they pulled at the start of the last Gulf war to see that.

In case anyone had forgot its the time they let the 4th ID unload in Turkey so it could come down through the Iraq from the North, then they suddenly changed their minds right before the start of the operation meaning the 4th ID had to pack up and transit all the way back the long way and enter Iraq from the South.

It was a well planned and deliberate stich up and they knew very well had the 4th ID been able to come down through the North of Iraq it would have made the operation to remove Saddam much swifter and with less loss of life, on all sides. Those people are not to be trusted.

discofishing wrote:

Anyone have any information on Turkey's rationale for asking for F-35 code? I understand they're starting to do a lot more defense programs on their own, that probably is a clue. They're getting state of the art, right off the bat. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Imagine the US ended up in a position where its aircraft could only fire weapons made by another country; and that country could potentially stop supplying those weapons to the US. Even if those weapons were state of the art, I can't see the US being happy with the scenario...

A lack of parts is a bigger problem than not having the codes. If any partner falls out of favor it is this lack of parts that will restrict flight ops, not lack of codes.

Remember too that LM tracks EVERY part made for the F-35 worldwide. It's part of the reduced lifetime operating costs.

Forum: F-35 Lightning II

Turkey REALLY wants the F-35 codes and puts order on hold.