Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

Finally, what we all have been waiting for is here. A first-time-ever joint exrecise between Israel's F-16's (will be either the F-16D Barak or the F-16I Sufa) and India's SU-30MKI's, maybe the most advanced fighter in service today in 2005.

Both of the countries expressed willings to this exrecise. Both the air forces will share tactics and knowledge with each over (the fact that the Indian MKI's contain Israeli {as long with French and Russian} avionics may play a big role here.

Source and more info: http://www.indianexpress.com/full_story.php?content_id=55061

Any thoughts?

Go IAF Razz

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What are the chances of the Sufa joining in the excercise? I don't think that high as still pretty 'new'. Anyone has any idea how many have been delivered until now? I think a little over a dozen by now right?

What are the chances of the IADF sharing ANY tactics or knowledge? Cool

They won't even publish serial numbers..... Rolling Eyes

Quote:

What are the chances of the IADF sharing ANY tactics or knowledge?
They won't even publish serial numbers....

With us, but maybe they will share it with another air force Wink

that's great Smile

.
it would be interesting to see how our pilots do against the Israeli AF, especially after thir good showing against the USAF.

ghostrider883,
what do you mean "after their good showing against the USAF" ?
who's showing? where and when? against the USAF?
thx.
fez

I guess he's talking about the exercises that were held earlier this year with the Indian Air Force and the USAF.

Hey Fezt
The showing which ghostrider883 is talking about is when the Copa 2004 happend in India about half a year ago. Those Su-30 MKI's did some great work against 'our' jets.This will be interresting with the Israelis. Those Israelis are great pilots, but those Indians also have some great Russian Sukhois.
I can't wait to see the results.

Ciao Avios

Thx,
didnt know about the good work the su-30 did, that realy is interesting?
what whas the scenario? who did the y fly with.
do we know anything about how the israelis do when they fly with others (red flag and such..)
cheers.
fez

Spike,
The Su-30s that took part in the Cope India Exercises were Su-30Ks, not Su-30MKIs. the MKI is a in a completely different class thn the Su-30K. The MKI is custom made version of the Su-30 for the Indian Air Force.

The MKI (Multirole, Commercial, India) was to have as many systems from the Su-37 as possible. These included:

1. Digital Fly-By-Wire controls instead of Analog for better accuracy and reliability

2. Movable Canards placed in front of the wings for super-maneuverability.

3. A Rearwards facing radar mounted in the tail boom, that would provide protection from targets approaching from the rear quadrants and the option of a rearwards firing R-73 missiles.

4. Three-dimensional Thrust Vector Controls (TVC) that allows the engine nozzles to swivel 15 degrees in any direction to enable the MKI to turn on a dime without any AoA (Angle of Attack) limits whatsoever. The Su-37 had two dimensional controls, i.e. they worked only in the vertical plane.

5. The Phazotron forward radar with increased search range, ground mapping function and compatibility with all Russian air-air and air-ground weaponry.

6. Modified aerial refueling probe.

7. Datalink, also present in Su-30 air defense fighters.

But the IAF went one step further, modifying the MKI in its own unique way to suit its purposes:

1. The original Electronic Counter Measures (ECM) package was removed in favour of an Israeli one

2. To improve cockpit design and reduce pilot workload, each cockpit would have six Liquid Crystal Displays (LCDs) including two multifunctional displays (MFDs) from Sextant Avionique of France.

3. Software controls (including avionics and radar) by Indian programmers.

4. An "open avionics" architecture - this means that in the future, the IAF can integrate any western missile it wants to, including the French "MICA" and the Israeli "Derby" and "Python-IV".

5. Possibly an Indian Head-Up Display (HUD).

Su-30K:

Su-30MKI:

Cope India Exercises:

USAF report:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/CopeIndia/index.html

IAF report:
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Images/Special/CopeIndia/iafindex.html[/b]

Hey Fezt
Well the Indian pilots are trained by very talented Russians.And as far as I know,the Scenarios were basic BFM engagements.But we also have to look,at the SU's thrust vectoring systems.That probably certainly does give them an adavntage.But the Israelis are trained by the US top guns,and so I belive that the Jews will do pretty good at those games.The SU-30mki might have an technological advantage over the F-16,but the Israelis are great pilots.Also the Su's have Israeli/Russian electronics,and they also got that huge radar.Both countries have mastered their jets,and they know how to use them to their most.So it will be close,in my opinion.

Ciao Avios

Quote:

do we know anything about how the israelis do when they fly with others (red flag and such..)

The Israeli AF recently flew with the German, Italian and British AF's. In all of these, the scores were pretty one-sided. Moreover, the Israeli AF regularily fly with the Turkish AF. The Americans are expected to come here soon as well.

Quote:

The Israeli AF recently flew with the German, Italian and British AF's. In all of these, the scores were pretty one-sided

I assume the Brit's did well then Wink

Hehehehe

DeepSpace wrote:

Hehehehe

The RAF fly boys say they opened some cans of whoop a$$ on there Israeli comrades!! Laughing

and walked away with the points, challenge coins, beer and what ever they could get there hands on!!! Twisted Evil

Forum: F-16 versus XYZ

Israeli F-16s to face Indian SU-30MKI's in 2005