Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

marco9 wrote:

ATF, JSF, PAK-FA, J-20, expensive toys for grown-up children. Spend that money (and effort) for welfare state and social development and you'll see how the avarage citizen life will improve.
It's exactly the reason why post WWII German and Japanese (and somehow Italian too) economies grew up dramatically. They had next to zero defense expenses due to heavy post war restrictions on defense imposed by Allies.

And still the social welfare in those two Countries is second to none (a part for Switzerland and Nordic European Countries who aviod wars like hell).

Better yet, have a free market where people work for a living, rather than living off government largesse. Cool

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marco9 wrote:

ATF, JSF, PAK-FA, J-20, expensive toys for grown-up children. Spend that money (and effort) for welfare state and social development and you'll see how the avarage citizen life will improve.
It's exactly the reason why post WWII German and Japanese (and somehow Italian too) economies grew up dramatically. They had next to zero defense expenses due to heavy post war restrictions on defense imposed by Allies.

And still the social welfare in those two Countries is second to none (a part for Switzerland and Nordic European Countries who aviod wars like hell).

They had next to zero defence expenditures because the US funded the rebuilding of Europe and Japan after WW2, propped up NATO which protected Western Europe during the cold war and maintained the strength of our pacific forces to keep Japan safe. If the United states had some other country protecting it, then we wouldn't need to spend what we do on defense. As it is, we have interests and obligations around the world related to our very way of life that require us to protect friends and allies.

Last edited by marco9 on Sep 10, 2011 - 12:51 PM; edited 2 times in total

Lightndattic wrote:

marco9 wrote:

ATF, JSF, PAK-FA, J-20, expensive toys for grown-up children. Spend that money (and effort) for welfare state and social development and you'll see how the avarage citizen life will improve.
It's exactly the reason why post WWII German and Japanese (and somehow Italian too) economies grew up dramatically. They had next to zero defense expenses due to heavy post war restrictions on defense imposed by Allies.

And still the social welfare in those two Countries is second to none (a part for Switzerland and Nordic European Countries who aviod wars like hell).

They had next to zero defence expenditures because the US funded the rebuilding of Europe and Japan after WW2, propped up NATO which protected Western Europe during the cold war and maintained the strength of our pacific forces to keep Japan safe. If the United states had some other country protecting it, then we wouldn't need to spend what we do on defense. As it is, we have interests and obligations around the world related to our very way of life that require us to protect friends and allies.

Uhm… not so much. Actually it was financed at next to zero cost since the USD took over the gold standard at the end of WWII.
At that point the US had the most favorable situation in the western world: its debt was costless, its credits had to be hardly paid with actual goods. It is actually what the US is doing today to bridge the gap of its commercial balance, weakening the USD to have the accumulated debt costing far less. Let’s say it in simple words. US are buying precious oil and Chinese work for paper that they control.
What happened then? The US were printing paper (literally paper) and giving it around benefitting of more than favorable exchange rates. Germany and Japan were rebuilt mostly by determinate Japanese and Germans much more than any American paper bills… and don’t speak about the actual shipped goods… they were again paid with paper.
… yes it’s an aviation forum, but if a person is really interested in a topic (aviation) does not mean that he has to be blind to the other issues that are around.

wrightwing wrote:

marco9 wrote:

ATF, JSF, PAK-FA, J-20, expensive toys for grown-up children. Spend that money (and effort) for welfare state and social development and you'll see how the avarage citizen life will improve.
It's exactly the reason why post WWII German and Japanese (and somehow Italian too) economies grew up dramatically. They had next to zero defense expenses due to heavy post war restrictions on defense imposed by Allies.

And still the social welfare in those two Countries is second to none (a part for Switzerland and Nordic European Countries who aviod wars like hell).

Better yet, have a free market where people work for a living, rather than living off government largesse. Cool

Don't get me wrong now. I am not an anti-American, I wish all that public spending could improve the life of the avarage US citizen instead of being wasted. And, yes, investing in miltary it's nothing but Socialism, since it's a State money to a lobbied private sector.

Can someone please tell me this: When the PAK-FA is fighting WVR and wants to take a short range IR missile shot how does the aircraft go about it? On the F-22 for example the IR missile is on a trapeze that swings out into the airflow to allow the missile seeker to aquire the target but what happens on the PAK-FA? I'm just having trouble picturing an IR missile on the PAK-FA being able to get the same field of view that a Sidewinder in an F-22 sidebay gets.

It has been stated that these conformal containers near the wing root are meant to be weapon bays taking one SRAAM each. IF that's the case the seeker might offer a similar FoV when extended. It could be that such missiles are primarily launched in LOAL mode as well which could settle the issue wrt a limited FoV from their launch point.

I thought they've now said that they are not bays at all..? Perhaps that needs to be cleared up (at least in my mind anyway).

Yes it should be cleared up. Thus far this is more rumour talk than anything else.

Forum: Modern Military Aircraft

Now it's getting scary: they have TWO of them.