Forum: F-16 Procedures

In the two seaters there is a switch to set where the pilot in charge is located, front or back. This switch changes the functionalities of a few things in various systems. I remember two different areas. Are there others?

Side Stick Controller pinky paddle switch allows the pilot in charge to over ride any input by the other “pilot”

Ejection Seat ejection events. If the pilot in Charge is in the front seat and he ejects the back seat will always go first then the front seat. If the “passenger” in the back ejects the front seat does not go automatically. If the pilot in charge is in the back and ejects he ejects first, then the front seat follows automatically. If the passenger in the front ejects the same happens again, i.e. back first then front goes. (correct me if I’m wrong)

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There is an ejection seat mode selector switch in the back seat...Aft - Norm - Solo. Solo is obvious..keeps the back seat in the jet when the front seater punches. Switch in AFT - either cockpit pulls the handle, the seats will sequence back to front. In NORM, if the back seater pulls the handle, only he goes, and if the front seater pulls the handle the seats will sequence back to front.

Some of the other controls like NWS have "Take Control" buttons. For example, if the respective cockpit depresses the Take Control NWS button, then that cockpit has control over the NWS. There are some functions like using the ICP that it doesn't matter..either cockpit has control always.

As for the paddle switch overriding the other cockpit's FLCS inputs on the stick, there is a FLCS override switch in the front cockpit. In FWD, the front seat can paddle off the back seat, and AFT is vice versa. Typically on incentive or orientation rides w/o a qualified pilot in the back seat, I'll have the FLCS override in FWD just in case of stick interference.

Gus

Why should only one pilot want to leave the airplane? For as much as I know, ejecting is the option one chooses if everything else has failed. So what is the use of the sequences ejection procedure.

I can imagine that you would like to inhibit the passenger from accidentally firing the seat ( I 've heard of a story that the passenger in the backseat of a F-14 had accidently ejected himself but leaving the pilot in place (fortunately)...) , but leaving one pilot on the plane while the other decends on his parachute.....

Jeroen

I'm not sure why it's mechanized that way, but way back when, we'd brief the orientation/incentive flyer to put the switch in NORM just in case the handle was accidentally pulled, only the GIB would go leaving the pilot to reccover the jet. Otherwise, I agree... Maybe a more important question is why did they build a two seater in the first place!!

Gus

Wasn't there a story where a Viper had a similar incident, i.e. back seater ejected and front seater recovered the ride back to base?

One RNoAF F-16B crashed in the water and the reasons for it was believed to be that the back seater had a hart attack and went stiff, pushing the stick forward in his agony, leaving the pilot no other alternative than to eject as there was not time enough for him to override and recover. The back seater was killed by the ejection seat as it caused massive internal injuries as he apparently was not sitting correctly when the ejection took place.

I heard an old T-38 tale that went something like this. The Stud in the front was on an early aerobatics-type ride with an instructor when the kid managed to get into an upright deep stall he couldn't recover from. With the safety floor fast approaching, both guys elected to eject with the kid pulling the handle to initiate it. Don't know if a switch was out of place or what but the kid left and the instructor stayed behind. Turns out the seat left just prior to the bottom end of the downward cycle of the stall and the kick from the seat leaving the jet was just enough to push the nose thru the stall enabling the instructor to recover and fly it home. Lo and behold when the kid stepped off the SAR helo he saw his jet parked on the ramp with the front canopy gone and his instructor waiting for him to debrief.

Now THAT'S a "There I Was" story!! Very Happy

Same sort of thing happened here at GTF in the F106, except it was a single seater. A rancher called up wanting to know how to turn the motor off. That F106 is now at the AF Museum at Wright Patt.

I'm currently reading about WWI fights, and how they didn't even have a parachute since it was considered ungentlemanly. Probably no ejection selector lever in those Sopwith Camels!!

Gus

There's no sequencing in the T-38. You can only punch yourself out, and you have to crew coordinate so you both don't go simultaneously (prefer backseater first so you don't get burned).

Cylon

lamoey wrote:

One RNoAF F-16B crashed in the water and the reasons for it was believed to be that the back seater had a hart attack and went stiff, pushing the stick forward in his agony, leaving the pilot no other alternative than to eject as there was not time enough for him to override and recover. The back seater was killed by the ejection seat as it caused massive internal injuries as he apparently was not sitting correctly when the ejection took place.

The aircraft involved seems to be RNoAF F-16B #303 from 332 skv, see

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_mishaps_airframe-303.html

stefaan

Stefaan, that is correct. I added that comment some time back. I read the information in the internal investigation report that was circulated within the RNoAF at the time.

To answer a question above, the ejection sequence is sequenced in many two seat fighters, because you would not want the front seat passing over you while you are trying to clear the rails. It is safer with the back seat going first. That way, he has cleared the aircraft, and is a safe distance from you before you go from the front seat. The F-106 you speak of Gus was recovered, repaired, and lived to fly another day. It escaped fate twice actually, as it was about to be put on the list for QF-106 conversion. It made it to the AF Museum before that could happen. *whew!*

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Yo Ho!

I like Gus' attitude!

I also enjoyed a two-seat bird that let the gomer in back go by himself.

On the other hand, we lost a General in 'nam because his F-4 had the ejection system set up for the GIB to go independently. Due to his emergency, the back seat ejection caused fire to envelope the front seat and the guy died.

Maybe Kevin can add to this incident. Tap tap tap.......

out

Hey Gums,

I forgot to ask my pops (fmr. Voodoo Medicine Man) this question, so I'll just reply to your post and ask you. Did the F-101B model have a Command Select ejection, or was it individual? Also, what did the TF-102 utilize? Having flown in the Tweety Bird, I know the 37s have an individual ejection. If someone is incapacitated, you're just SOL. Shocked

Spooky thought...That could've been me if everything had hit the fan.

Beers and MiGs were made to be pounded!

Gums, Yeah, I know of that incident. Only general officer lost in 'Nam. He refused to have the seat selector put into both several times. The story is best told by one of the Rutan brothers who was flying a F-100F Misty fast FAC alongside at the time. I have that somewhere in an ancient email. The story as I recall it was the general wanted a combat endorsement on his flight log and flew a recon mission (RF-4) somewhere. Picked up some shrapnel and had a fire under the cockpit. They radioed in and Rutan (Burt?) flew over to eyeball the situation and assist if possible. He saw holes under the cockpit with small flames flickering in there. He says he reported this and the recon officer in the back seat wanted to select both on the selector. The general refused several times and ordered the GIB to select single. They flew to near feet wet when the flames became larger and the GIB had to eject. Rutan watched the seat come out and describes in in great detail in his missive. When he looked back at the aircraft the cockpit was engulfed in flames. He describes yelling into the radio for the pilot to eject but got no response. Watched the guy's helmet turn from white to black as it burned. Followed the aircraft in its death plunge until his recon guy yelled at him to pull out. Rutan's explanation on the fire was nothing to do with the seat btw- the flames under the cockpit were drawn up into the pit by the airflow over the open canopy area.

Additional info-
Ejection back first vs front first- they have done testing on this. With most ROCATs given typical Nomex garments and flight gear, the aft seat guy won't get too toasty. The rocket blast is over in about a 10th of a second as I recall, and the gear can protect for that long reasonably well. Another reason to have your visor down all the time though!

Solo Position mishap January '99 Luke AFB as I recall. A D model with two occupants had a mishap where the switch was selected SOLO by accident. Both crew pulled their handles within a very tiny fraction of time. In that case both seats fire, very nearly simultaneously. In this case, the first realization there was a problem came after parachute deploy. One guy looks up and sees a reasonable looking chute, with an odd mess dangling from the lines near the canopy. The other guy gets opening shock, and looks up to see BOOTS! The mishap investigation showed that the seats came out and as programmed by the roll rockets on the bottoms of the seats tilted in opposite direction. Mode 1 ejections have no drogue and the main chute mortars fire at about 0.2 seconds after sequencer start (which occurs near the top of the rails.) The mortars fired near simultaneously, with one of them firing thru the risers and lines of the other as the lines stretched out. The second chute became entangled with the first and the two crew were lowered to the ground under a single parachute. They survived with little/no injury.

Wacky loss of aircraft due to dual seats 1- Tornado flying over a range in Wales on bomb run. The GIB is head down looking at his scope working out the release info as an A-10 pulled up directly in front of the Tornado. The pilot yanks and banks in a frantic attempt to evade a midair, successfully. The aft seater, knowing full well they were in a stabilized attack figures the sudden maneuver is a failure in the fly-by-wire system and initiates ejection. The pilot in front is thinking whew, and then hears bang, whoosh and is kicked in the a$$ as his seat fires allowing a multi-million dollar aircraft to terminate its flight without them. (Both crew had face/eye injuries due to not having their visors down when the canopy fracture systems fired. I read about this one as attached to a directive from UK MOD to all crew to fly visor down at all times, and to wear dual visor helmets to make this easier in all lighting condition. Separate directive was issued making it very clear as to when the selector should be in both or single {single for take-offs, landings, and during practice attacks as I recall.})

2- T-2V Buckeye (IIRC- Navy trainer in any case) flying a stall training mission. The IP was in the back seat. IP was not happy with the wimpy recovery in early stalls so he demonstrated a more vigorous one, then told the Student Naval Aviatior (SNA) to try again. The SNA then pulled hard on the stick to get high alpha to initiate the stall, driving the mechanically linked stick into the stomach of the IP. It struck the central release box on the harness and unbelted the IP. Before he could do anything about it the aircraft departed and generated a negative G situation. The SNA then hears a bang and feels the air rush around the cockpit. He looks back and sees the IP is no longer in the aircraft (not noticing the seat still is!) He figures he really musta screwed the pooch, or busted the aircraft if the IP had ejected without warning, so he ejected. The IP radioed into base with his survival radio from his parachute as he descended and arranged helo support. He also explained the method by which the harness had become released. Unfortunately when the helo arrived the found his body floating in the water. The IP had misjudged distance above water and released his harness to prevent being drowned by the parachute. Mishap board felt his injuries were consistant with a 200ft fall.

Kevin
The Ejection Site
TC, TF-102 was side by side. Most, if not all side by sides don't have sequenced ejections. Pretty sure the -102 fell into that group. (EA-6B does, as does Viking, but they are both s-b-s and f/b. F-101B if Gums doesn't remember, I'll look it up.)

Forum: F-16 Procedures

Two Seater – Pilot in Charge Switch