Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

What do you folks think are the chances that F-22's might be deployed to police Libyan airspace? I'd have thought it's an ideal aircraft for the job what with its excellent ELINT capabilities and the fact it should be bloody hard for SAM's to target it.
Is it complete overkill or the perfect opportunity to test out the new kit?

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Zero. Why would you want to wear out your best aircraft against someone as piddly as Libya? It'd be like using your Ferrari to drive to the grocery store.

Two thoughts:

1. Although it sounds good on TV, what benefit would actually be gained from a "no-fly" zone, and would the Administration actually authorize anyone to shoot if someone violated the zone? "Show of force" only works for so long before the other side realizes you're bluffing (see: Afghanistan).

2. Where would you base the Raptors? Outside of Israel, where else would you trust them on the ground down there, and just think of the reaction of F-22s flying form Israel possibly firing on Arab aircraft.

I think the USN/USMC could do a good job of policing the no-fly zone from aircraft carriers. Hornets and Super Hornets would work just fine in enforcing a no-fly zone.

Israel is too far to be basing F-22s there, if they were to be used. Yes it's probably pretty secure, but just not close enough. Souda Air Base on the island of Crete (Greece) is probably the best bet for basing any sort of aircraft for a contingency plan. Aircraft there would most likely require only minimal tanker support. If Tripoli is the biggest hot spot in Libya and major focus of attention, then maybe somewhere in Italy, or its islands would work. I don't think Greece or Italy would have a problem hosting US aircraft if they were used to promote security in the region.

The USAF wanted to deploy the F-22 to Iraq back in 2007 (I think). Gates said no be cause he didn't want to risk enhancing the Raptor's reputation before he could cancel it.

1st503rdsgt wrote:

The USAF wanted to deploy the F-22 to Iraq back in 2007 (I think). Gates said no be cause he didn't want to risk enhancing the Raptor's reputation before he could cancel it.

As much as I disagree with Gates re. the F-22, deploying the F-22 to Iraq or Afghanistan would have been utterly retarded. Those airframes have finite hours and there won't be more of them. Conserve them for when you need them instead of pissing them away for photo ops.

Well both Italy and Greece are WELL within range for raptors, they are practically across the street. Although It may seem like overkill, it would ensure no US casualties in a sense. I mean super hornets would be much more suseptable to sams and libyan aircraft than raptors.

PLUS...........

Does anyone know what the deal is with the six raptors in spain? They were spotted a few weeks back with a KC-10. Pics are one jetphotos.net and airliners.net.

Interesting because they are all newer block 35's out of Langley.....

Block 35's all from the FF? Plus no one has said anything about it...... Someones got to know.....

bandit66 wrote:

Block 35's all from the FF? Plus no one has said anything about it...... Someones got to know.....

Maybe there's a REASON for not sayin' anything about it. Whistle

sferrin wrote:

As much as I disagree with Gates re. the F-22, deploying the F-22 to Iraq or Afghanistan would have been utterly retarded. Those airframes have finite hours and there won't be more of them. Conserve them for when you need them instead of pissing them away for photo ops.

Not to mention the possibility of getting a $150 million airplane destroyed by a $16 mortar shell.

As for Libyan air defense, check this out:
http://geimint.blogspot.com/2010/05/lib ... twork.html

F-22's would not appear to be the optimal choice for a no-fly zone enforcer.

Any hypothetical operational use of this aircraft type could be in the participation of a 'first-day' scenario though. Its ability and official requirement rather, is to achieve multi-mission air-superiority and air space penetration. Once air superiority is achieved and air space commanded (if force were required), it should then seem fairly sensible and cost-effective to employ sufficiently equipped legacy units in a follow-on no-fly capacity.

The chief of fantasy no-fly-zone assets could have of course been an operational F-16XL type (ha, I had to sneak that in), complete with CFT and a couple wing tanks -- unrefueled, good for 7-8 hr endurance? Hmm. But real-world; the likely candidate would have to be an F-15E class given long-endurance, flexibility and situational awareness.

Perhaps any hypothetical, sustained no-fly enforcement might in part be operated from Malta International too? About 225nm from Tripoli? Perhaps from the old RAF dispersal area? All related issues of course highly speculative.

Malta is its own country. Not an island that's part of Italy. It's not even a member of NATO, but is a partner nation. I'm not sure if they like to stay neutral or not. I would scratch that off the list. Then again, civil war in Libya might be closer to them than Dallas is to Houston. Having a NATO fighter squadron there in case things go south might give them some comfort.

Apparently we've frozen $30 billion in Libyan assets. Lets just take it. Remember that PanAm flight over Scotland? Give some money to the victims and then pay off US debt with the rest. Then again, how many F-22s would $30 billion buy?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110301/ap_ ... f/af_libya

What does the Libyan air force have as far as air assets go?

discofishing wrote:

Malta is its own country. Not an island that's part of Italy. It's not even a member of NATO, but is a partner nation. I'm not sure if they like to stay neutral or not. I would scratch that off the list. Then again, civil war in Libya might be closer to them than Dallas is to Houston. Having a NATO fighter squadron there in case things go south might give them some comfort.

Apparently we've frozen $30 billion in Libyan assets. Lets just take it. Remember that PanAm flight over Scotland? Give some money to the victims and then pay off US debt with the rest. Then again, how many F-22s would $30 billion buy?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110301/ap_ ... f/af_libya

What does the Libyan air force have as far as air assets go?

If we're going to get involved, look for Army Special Forces, Navy SEALS and MARSOC to make contact with the rebels. From there they can help figure out what the rebels can REALLY do and then help separate them from loyalist forces so the CAS can start hammering targets. At any rate, I say if we must intervene, we get in, get Gadhafi-duck out of the picture and then leave as quickly as we came. Let the Libyans figure that stuff out. No time or money for nation building!!!

discofishing wrote:

Apparently we've frozen $30 billion in Libyan assets. Lets just take it. Remember that PanAm flight over Scotland? Give some money to the victims and then pay off US debt with the rest. Then again, how many F-22s would $30 billion buy??

Ahhh, lol, (I know you are being sarcastic)... as that of course would not go down so well with Libyan population who would indeed be staking their own new nation-building and with whom behind-the-scenes efforts would count on a pro-active development in trust and a cooling-off period with past confrontation.

And with regards to any hypothetical near-term no-fly mission per se... it could indeed be assessed as a timely and necessary function of containing a further escalation in the crisis. One hypothetcial perhaps, could conceive of some rogue, holding-company type outfit flying in new SAM systems and cruise missiles, etc to one side of the conflict ?? Hmm.

Regardless... any mass civil war would be a threat to regional security let alone a humanitarian disaster. imho.

Good to hear peoples thoughts on the issue.
On this side of the pond the RAF is 'considering' sending Typhoons to RAF Akrotiri on Cyrprus. I think it'll happen myself.

I'm more afraid that the humanitarian disaster is unfolding as we speak. The US has the intel assets to see if Gadaffi is actually landing mercenaries at their airbase in the south of the country. The facts as to whether that is true or not should be made public asap so that at least the people of Libya can get the hell out of their way. Shining a light on this idiot before he does something that everyone will regret is probably a more efficient approach anyway.

Forum: General F-22A Raptor forum

Raptors for the No-Fly Zone?